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Israeli occupation of Palestine is a crime against humanity


Tareq Seikaly

Illustration by Carl Robinette / Daily Sundial

The Arab/Israeli or Palestinian/Israeli conflict has been an ongoing struggle since the creation of Israel in 1948, as many may already know. But what many may not know is that every day, Palestinians are subject to human rights violations that may amount to war crimes and crimes against humanity.

Israel has been in violation of international law since 1967, when U.N. Security Council Resolution 242 was adopted in November of that year, which condemned the seizure of land through war and called for Israel to withdraw its occupying forces to the June 1967 borders. Since, the international community (except the occupying power) considers the Palestinian territory, including East Jerusalem, to be “occupied territories.”

With the onset of the occupation, Israel began to transplant parts of its own population to the Palestinian territory, including Jerusalem. These Israelis were settled on illegally acquired Palestinian land in what came to be known as Israeli settlements. Such population transfers are explicitly forbidden under the fourth Geneva Convention specifically to prevent colonization and annexation.

In the initial stage of this process, Israel claimed that the settlements were being built for “security” reasons. At a later stage, however, more ideological reasons were given to justify this illegal expansionist policy. To date, Israel has transferred more than 500,000 settlers into the occupied Palestinian territory, and the abuse of natural resources and the establishment of a dual system of law has created a clear situation of colonization; what many consider systematic apartheid.

Some who are “pro-Israel” may deny their current presence in Palestinian territory because they withdrew their troops occupying Gaza – a strip of land between Israel and Eygypt – in 2005. However, the international community still considers Israel as an occupying power because it has control over Gaza’s land borders, water and airspace.

Israel’s policies only hurt regular civilians and not terrorist groups. The United Nations’ submitted its annual report on the humanitarian situation in the Palestinian territories in January, describing a grim state of food insecurity, isolation, violence and failing health and education services. The report, which was presented during a Security Council session upon the Palestinians’ request, asserted that the number of civilian casualties rose by more than 30 percent in Gaza and the West Bank compared to 2010.

“Israeli authorities continued to impose a blockade on Gaza, amounting to collective punishment of the population and affecting every aspect of life in the Gaza Strip,” the report stated. The report maintains that the policies restricting the habitants of Gaza’s access to areas with viable agriculture and fishing prospects constrain their livelihoods. Moreover, restrictions on the movement of goods and people into Gaza compromise the region’s health, education and sanitation services.

The UN also addressed the situation in East Jerusalem arguing that the Palestinian population there is growing isolated from the rest of the West Bank. Furthermore, the residents of “Area C” – which makes up 60 percent of the West Bank and is under Israeli control – have been facing escalating rates of home demolitions, settler violence and restricted travel.

Pro-Israelis may also respond to criticism of the Israeli government’s continued colonization of Palestine by blaming the victim – since Palestinians have failed to make peace with Israel, occupation is a necessary measure to ensure the security of the Jewish state.

Ironically, Israel’s occupation only aggravates violence and puts their own people at risk. Groups such as Hamas and Hezbullah have indiscriminately fired rockets into Israel as a way to stand up to the occupying power. Israel sees this as a reason to continue bombarding Palestinian land, although the problem lies first and foremost in the illegal acquisition of Palestinian land and resources by Israel.

So what is a “crime against humanity”? According to Francis Boyle, professor of international law at the University of Illinois, this concept goes all the way back to the Nuremberg trial of 1945 for the trial of major Nazi war criminals. Drafted by the United States government, a new type of international crime was created to specifically deal with the Nazi persecution of the Jewish people.

This is what the United Nations Human Rights Commission determined that Israel is currently doing to the Palestinian People: crimes against humanity.

To learn more about the conflict and crisis, CSUN will host a lecture today in the Northridge Center at 4:00 p.m., by Professor Ilan Pappé, an Israeli activist and scholar who advocates against Israel’s “false paradigm of parity and partition.”



Do you have an opposing opinion? The Daily Sundial would like to hear from you. Email us at opinion@csun.edu



  1. eag7777 May 10, 2012

    What about the 10,000 people killed by the Syrian government in the last 6 months?  If you were so concerned about the loss of Arab life perhaps you should write about that, but then Israel is a much easier target.

  2. eag7777 May 10, 2012

    What about the 10,000 Arabs murdered in Syria in the last 6 months by the Syrian government?  If you cared so much about Arab peoples in crisis you would be writing about that, but then Jews and Israel are a much easier target.

  3. Anonymous Feb 22, 2012

    A lie that told millions of times….still a lie!

    Apartheid? If you say it – you really abuse Black people, who really suffered in South Africa. 

    Genocide? If you say it- you abuse Armenian, African, Bosnian and yes you also abuse Jewish people, who were systematically killed only because they were who they are!
    If Israel did or does genocide, how Palestinian grow from 500.000 to 3.500.000 only in West Bank and Gaza? How Israeli Arab grow from 160.000 inside Israel to 1.400.000?
    Answer: Israel never did and it does not do anything like this!

    Crime against humanity? You abuse relatives of 6 milions of Jewish who were systematiclly killed during 4 years! You abuse realivie of 20 milion Russians, who were killed also during 4 years (’41-’45) in WW2! And you also abuse another millions of European who were killed by Nazis.

    “They are not evil or anti-Semites,” Yemini says of those activists. “But
    they are manipulated. They don’t understand that they are not talking
    about human rights — they are talking about the extermination of Israel.
    If they really care about human rights, they would talk about Saudi
    Arabia or Iran.”

    Do you want to understand more about the reality in Israel and in the Middle East?
    Look it!





    Do you want to know what really happens in Israel? What are the Zionist standards?
    Look those video! And help Israelis and Palestinian to confront with radicals and to achieve PEACE!





    and etc. etc….


  4. Arafat Feb 22, 2012


    You’re right again.  Why can’t we all be reasonable like the following Muslim leaders?

    (A hint, Joseph, I am joking and these Muslim leaders are not being reasonable.  I figured given your moral compass you might need this hint.)


    • The former Turkish Prime Minister
    Erbakan said – I quote: “The whole of Europe will become Islamic. We will
    conquer Rome”.

    • Yunis al-Astal, a Hamas cleric and member of the Palestinian Parliament said
    – I quote: “Very soon Rome will be conquered.”

    • Ali Al-Faqir, the former Jordanian Minister of Religion, stated that – I
    quote: “Islam will conquer Rome.”

    • Sheikh Muhammad al-Arifi, imam of the mosque of the Saudi Defence Academy,
    said – I quote: “We will control Rome and introduce Islam in it.”
    Our opponents are hoping for an event that is akin to the freezing of the Rhine
    in 406, when thousands of immigrants will be given an easy opportunity to cross
    massively into the West.

    • In a speech to the UN, the Algerian President Houari Boumédienne, said –
    I quote: “One day, millions of men will leave the Southern Hemisphere to go to
    the Northern Hemisphere. And they will not go there as friends. Because they
    will go there to conquer it. And they will conquer it with their sons. The
    wombs of our women will give us victory.” End of quote.

    • Libyan dictator Kadhafi said, I quote: “There are tens of millions of Muslims
    in the European continent today and their number is on the increase. This is
    the clear indication that the European continent will be converted into Islam.
    Europe will one day soon be a Muslim continent.” End of quote.

  5. Abu Mustafa, Wael Feb 21, 2012

    Sense and non sense, sense to argue but non sense to lie and deny others!
    Sense and non sense, sense to be humane but non sense to be sick and inhumane!

    Palestinians irrespective who had given them that name as people or Palestine for that land, are existing as Cannanities, and their land is the land of Cannan. For all those, who are denying Palestinians their rights, know this basic fact. The father Abraham (peace be upon him) who it is believed to be the father of all came from Iraq to Palestine, where the name was Cannan Land and where the Cannanities were living there, before Jews, Christians and even Muslims. Know it that the roots of the people of that land go to that history, and many of today Palestinians go back in their roots as well existence to that start, there. Also, we have to know that who came from nearby to that land whether they were many or few have relations with Cannan land and Cannan people and after Abraham and his sons a new generations came to existence. Also, remember that Abraham belongs to people who are relatives and relatives of relatives!

    What is sense and non sense, that Jews to come from all over the world to that land, then, have the right to live, stay and exist there, where and while Palestinians who have their roots there since ever have no right, rather they have to leave and go away from there?!

    Then, who is abusing whom? Issac and Ishmail were true brothers, the sons of Abraham! And in addition to Cannanities and their relatives all around, many came from those two sons as people and tribes of the whole region, a fact which is beyond the given names later to that land, whether by Jews as Judia and Samiria or Palestine.

    What a shame what a shame upon you of all?

    To add more, what is law guys? Who make it, for whom and why? 

    Why when law is for our side we accept it and recognize it, while when it is not we deny and denounce it?   

    When, we will feel our true selves? When we will work for ourselves as a humanity who is in danger? When we will work for what makes us living humans and work for all what makes us truly sane living humans; not a punch of sick ones, who are not aware about where they are going or where they are taking others?

    WE believe that we are doing best but it seems to me the worst without even knowing!!



    1. Vlad Feb 21, 2012


      Are you comfortable with a standard in which the “original” inhabitants of a land are entitled to reclaiming their rightful claim to said land?  This would displace many in the Arab world, as their expansion was due to Arab/Muslim military expansionism.

      Palestinian(Arab) unacceptance of the two-state recommendation in 1948 resulted in their attacking Israel. They lost. If Palestine had won, would they “negotiate” Israels rights?

      Today, Hamas, lead by Ahmadinajutjob in Iran have called for the eliminating of, not only Israel, but ALL Jews.

      Please englighten us on Mahdi’ism? (The Twelfth Imam)

      1. Abu Mustafa, Wael Feb 23, 2012

        :) Just we have to be human and merely human. Also, we have to do our best to be united in facing crime, drugs, wars, earth raping and pollution. 

        If it come to questions and throwing questions, i have 1001 questions to be asks, let us not waste the time arguing and arguing rather let us admit that we are sick people, who need to overcome that situation and fight the enemy within us!! 

        Let us Vlad see things from two perspectives, never from one perspective; then, we will know more and grow more. 

        1. Jon Ryan Feb 23, 2012

          Abu Mustafa,
          I hope & pray that leaders on all sides have the courage and desire to finally put an end to all of this.  As I have previously mentioned, I believe that the only real solution is very similar to the one Bill Clinton proposed at Camp David.
          The Palestinians will have to know that Israel does not wish to occupy them and the Israelis have to know that the Palestinians and/or Arabs do not want to destroy them.
          That, and of course, both sides will need to make “painful compromises.”

          1. Abu Mustafa, Wael Feb 23, 2012

            Let’s hope, why not. we learned that where there is hope there is life. I do salute your free spirit.

    2. Arafat Feb 21, 2012

      Maybe Abu could explain this conundrum for me?

      Why is it Muslims are free to violently conquer lands anywhere and everywhere
      without a word of protest from American Muslims, or any Muslims for that
      matter, but if Jews have a legally established homeland Muslims will never stop
      protesting against it? Why is this do you suppose? What explanation can be
      given other than as the Qur’an states repeatedly that Islam’s goal is to
      establish a worldwide caliphate in which all non-Muslims are subjugated.

      For instance, Mohammed was born around 571 AD thousands and thousands of years
      after Hinduism, Buddhism and Judaism existed. But within a few centuries of
      Mohammed’s birth Islam had violently conquered vast sections of Asia, all of
      North Africa and smaller sections of Southern Europe.

      Now Muslims tell us that all this land belongs to them even though, for
      instance, in Afghanistan they killed every last Buddhist who once lived there.
      According to Muslim logic per Israel shouldn’t this land belong to the

      Or in North Africa all the Berbers have been forcibly converted to Islam or
      have been killed and now we’re told all this vast landmass belongs to Islam.
      That’s interesting, if not completely hypocritical. And what about Southern
      Thailand. Did anyone know that in the last several years something like 5,000
      Buddhists have been killed by Muslims because, or so we’re told, the land the
      Buddhists are on belongs to Islam. And Southern Russia? Muslims are
      relentlessly waging a slow reign of terror in Russia because, you guessed it,
      Russians are treating Muslims poorly and they should give up the Southern
      section of that country to Muslims.

      Or, let’s take Sudan as another example. How many millions have been killed in
      Sudan? How many babies and children have starved in Sudan while Islamists steal
      the food from aid compounds? How many women have Muslims gang-raped in Sudan
      all because that land belongs to Muslims and only Muslims. All other people can
      go somewhere else to live, I guess.

      And Kashmir? The same. Despite Hindus having lived there for 5,000 years –
      something like 4,000+ years before Mohammed was born – Muslims tell us Kashmir
      belongs to them. Amazing logic isn’t it?

      And that brings us to Israel. Israel also belongs to Islam. Did you know that?
      It’s true. Even though it’s no bigger than a small pimple on the caliphate’s
      ass it is still their land and they will fight to the death to prove their

      Doesn’t the logic here make a lot of sense. Isn’t it as clear as day? Of course
      it is. The world belongs to Islam and we’re mere players on their stage.

      1. Abu Mustafa, Wael Feb 23, 2012

        Arafat, first of all know that old Muslims got the world red of two evil empires, one as you know is the Roman (who destroyed the second  temple as Jews believe) and the Persians who used to fight the Romans using their Arab allies of that time, so what is wrong with Islam when it comes to uniting the scattered Arabs and get red of those two evils? 

        So, they solved enough problems for many, but when Israel started, first and since then merely brought many troubles to Jews all over, then troubled the poor Palestinians and displaced them all over, just to bring it to your attention that more than 400 of their little towns and villages were completely destroyed! Do you know that? In Jaffa alone there was of 120000, do you know how many were pushed to leave their homes during the days of Israel independence, know it sir, 1, 00000 people as refugees (what a great job)?! And still we do not know where they are taking us?

        Let us go back to your beloved Muslims. You say somewhere, Mohammad and his Muslims this and that, great. But do you know about the situation of Hindus, Buddhists, Christians and Jews of that time? Do know what historians say about that stage of time? It is well know to you and me how much dark it was, even in Europe of that time the situation was more than to describe it as terrible and miserable!! 

        So, what is wrong with Muslims to come and enlighten the world, this is what they did. Enough to know that the Zero was their invention and they since then had taught us how to count, rather the whole west and east today is using the numbers they have invented for us; know sir that 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, etc is Arab Muslim numbers not Western or Eastern numbers, do you know that? 

        When Muslims went to South Europe they went there with their civilization, and after 800 years of creation there, as the only source of knowledge and civilization, they were with their Jew brothers pushed out in a way all of us know about how harsh it was, and know that Jews with their little helpless children run away to North Africa and to the Ottoman Muslim land that you say and see as land of enmity! 

        They were well received there, well protected and dealt with as full citizens for more than 400 years? While, those who were scattered in all over Europe merely they were in ghettoes, maltreated and discriminated; they were in conditions the first as well the second World Wars told us enough about it from Jewish sources!! 

        So, how you judge things?

        When Crusaders rushed south, what they did to Muslims and Jews? What they brought to that land if you compare things with Muslims when they went north and south? I tell you, they were crashing everything moving on earth, and it is well know what they did to Muslims and Jews? if you do not know about it read from the source you want? Read about it from Jewish sources, from Christian sources, and from Muslim sources and compare things. Man, they were fought back by Muslims, Jews and Eastern Christians, do you know that, and could you guess why?

        At the end, how Muslims dealt with them? I have much to say here but what to say and what not to say mr. Arafat?

        When you say Barbers, Hindus, Buddhists and Muslims, do you know that most of South Asian Muslims are by origin Hindus and Buddhists? They like it and simply converted to the new religion; their right to go for it and those who did not like it still since ever are living there; who told  you that it was by sword? 

        Do you know that Muhammad Ibn Alqasim when reached INDIA (Gujrat today) was the first one and by force to stop burning Hindu women with their dead husbands? It was a practice a among Hindus there, and it is a religious ritual issue sir, but Muslims were the first to stop that practice? I heard this from a Hindu historian who said the truth, so what is wrong with muslims? When it comes to Kashmiris, who are Muslims now a day, simply they were Hindus and Buddhists and due to many reasons, least of them the oppression of Hinduism (read about cast system to know the terrible things) converted to Islam which is an open door for all, not a closed rigid door. If I do believe that my religion is a mercy for me and for all then why not to allow others come in and share the mercy instead of holding it selfishly alone? You know some believe that others have not to be equal with us, so, why to be in the same boat!!

        When it comes to Barbers, you say by force they were turned to be Muslims, know that they converted to Islam and become best defenders of islam, do you know tHat Bin Nosair and Ibn Ziad who went to South West Europe were Barbers?

        You say Sudan, and you could say Somal and and… Whatever the story there, whatever the truth is there or elsewhere, right is right and wrong is wrong man. It does not mean at all they represent the true Islam and Muslims. Islam says loudly {that who kills a self without a reason merely [he or she] as who killed the who humanity!}. This is the truth nothing more nothing less, and here where it is logic and sense?

        When it comes to todays Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus and Buddhists, we find most of them crazy, yes crazy and merely sick ones. Of course, there are exceptions, but most believe that they are true believers in HIM, the ALMIGHTY, while they are truly not!

        WE believe that we are doing best but it seems to me the worst without even knowing!!

        What you say Arafat Bhai (brother) there?


        1. Jon Ryan Feb 23, 2012

          SO what is your bottom line opinion?  Two state solution based on 1967 lines with equal territory exchanges, or a one state solution and all it implies?

          1. Abu Mustafa, Wael Feb 23, 2012

            one state solution and all it implies.

          2. Arafat Feb 23, 2012

            Tell me about one single Islamic dominated state where non-Muslims live as equals to non-Muslims.  Why would Israel invite a people into their country whose goal is to either kill Jews and/or to make them subservient?

          3. Abu Mustafa, Wael Feb 23, 2012

            sir, one state solution and all it implies. No other solutions. Imagine the world each and every country within it is seeking and asking for a pure kind of state on the basis of religion or ethnicities or nationalism; it is sickness per se!! It will be a true hell on earth not a true free world!

          4. Anonymous Feb 23, 2012

            Israel has the soveriegn right to determine its immigration policies just like every other nation does.

            If Saudi arabia decides – and it has – that not one non-Muslim is allowed citizenship there then that is their right.

            If America decides to limit Hispanic immigration this is America’s right. 

            Do you have a problem with that?  Are you so arrogant as to decide what the laws of each nation should be?

          5. Jon Ryan Feb 23, 2012

            ok.  Good to know.  It’s this line of thinking that is the source of Palestinian misery.  I don’t get it.   !?? ???? 

          6. Anonymous Feb 23, 2012

            The source of Palestinian misery is Islam.  Islam cannot cede land to anyone.  Worse still Islam’s core tenet is to capture land and to forcefully convert the captured.

            This is the root cause of Palestinian’s misery.

            Unlike any other refugee group the Palestinians have not been absorbed into another nation.  Refugees all over the world find new places to live, but not the po’ Palestinians.  They will live in refugee camps for countless generations like good Muslims.  Bending to the will of Allah.

            Meanwhile their filthy rich Muslim brothers in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and elsewhere would rather spend recklessly on jets, mansions, yachts and whores then to send a red cent to relieve the Palestinian’s squalor.

            Allahu Akbar!

        2. Arafat Feb 23, 2012


          Your understanding of Islam’s contributions are more propaganda than fact.


          1. Arafat Feb 23, 2012

            Abu, Your understanding of the Crusades is more propaganda than fact.


            Here are
            some quick facts…

            The first
            Crusade began in 1095… 460 years after the first Christian city
            was overrun by Muslim armies, 457 years after Jerusalem was
            conquered by Muslim armies, 453 years after Egypt was taken by
            Muslim armies, 443 after Muslims first plundered Italy, 427 years
            after Muslim armies first laid siege to the Christian capital of
            Constantinople, 380 years after Spain was conquered by Muslim
            armies, 363 years after France was first attacked by Muslim
            armies, 249 years after the capital of the Christian world, Rome
            itself, was sacked by a Muslim army, and only after centuries of church
            burnings, killings, enslavement and forced conversions of Christians.

            By the time
            the Crusades finally began, Muslim armies had conquered two-thirds
            of the Christian world.

            Europe had been harassed by Muslims since
            the first few years following Muhammad’s death. As early as 652, Muhammad’s
            followers launched raids on the island of Sicily, waging a full-scale occupation
            200 years later that lasted almost a century and was punctuated by massacres,
            such as that at the town of Castrogiovanni, in which 8,000 Christians were put
            to death. In 1084, ten years before the first crusade, Muslims staged
            another devastating Sicilian raid, burning churches in Reggio, enslaving monks
            and raping an abbey of nuns before carrying them into captivity.

            In 1095,
            Byzantine Emperor, Alexius I Comneus began begging the pope in Rome for help in
            turning back the Muslim armies which were overrunning what is now Turkey,
            grabbing property as they went and turning churches into mosques. Several
            hundred thousand Christians had been killed in Anatolia alone in the decades
            following 1050 by Seljuk invaders interested in ‘converting’ the survivors to

            Not only
            were Christians losing their lives in their own lands to the Muslim advance but
            pilgrims to the Holy Land from other parts of Europe were being harassed,
            kidnapped, molested,
            forcibly converted to Islam and occasionally murdered. (Compare this to Islam’s
            justification for slaughter on the basis of Muslims being denied access to the
            Meccan pilgrimage in Muhammad’s time).

            Crusaders only invaded lands that were Christian. They did not attack Saudi
            Arabia (other than a half-hearted expedition by a minor figure) or sack Mecca as
            the Muslims had done (and continued doing) to Italy and Constantinople. Their
            primary goal was the recapture of Jerusalem and the security of safe passage for
            pilgrims. The toppling of the Muslim empire was not on the agenda.

            The period
            of Crusader “occupation” (of its own former land) was stretched tenuously over
            about 170 years, which is less than the Muslim occupation of Sicily and southern
            Italy alone – to say nothing of Spain and other lands that had never been
            Islamic before falling victim to Jihad. In fact, the Arab occupation of North
            Africa and Middle Eastern lands outside of Arabia is almost 1400 years

            Despite popular
            depiction, the Crusades were not a titanic battle between Christianity
            and Islam. Although originally dispatched by papal decree, the “occupiers”
            quickly became part of the political and economic fabric of the Middle East
            without much regard for religious differences. Their arrival was largely
            accepted by the local population as simply another change in authority. Muslim
            radicals even lamented the fact that many of their co-religionists preferred to
            live under Frankish (Christian) rule than migrate to Muslim lands.

            The Islamic world was
            split into warring factions, many of which allied themselves with the Frankish
            princes against each other at one time or another. This even included Saladin,
            the Kurdish warrior who is credited with eventually ousting the “Crusaders.”
            Contrary to recent propaganda, however, Saladin had little interest in holy war
            until a rogue Frankish prince began disrupting his trade routes. Both before
            and after the taking of Jerusalem, his armies spent far more time and resources
            battling fellow Muslims.

            For its part, the
            Byzantine (Eastern Christian) Empire preferred to have little to do with the
            Crusader kingdoms and went so far as to sign treaties with their Muslim rivals
            on occasion.

            Another misconception
            is that the Crusader era was a time of constant war. In fact, very little of
            this overall period included significant hostilities. In response to Muslim
            expansion or aggression, there were only about 20 years of actual military
            campaigning, much of which was spent on organization and travel. (They were
            from 1098-1099, 1146-1148, 1188-1192, 1201-1204, 1218-1221, 1228-1229, and
            1248-1250). By comparison, the Muslim Jihad against the island of Sicily alone
            lasted 75 grinding years.

            the Crusades are justified by the Quran itself, which encourages Holy War in
            order to “drive them
            out of the places from whence they drove you out” (2:191), even though the
            aim wasn’t to expel Muslims from the Middle East, but more to bring an end to
            the molestation of pilgrims. Holy war is not justified by New Testament
            teachings, which is why the Crusades are an anomaly, the brief interruption of
            centuries of relentless Jihad against Christianity that began long before and
            continued well after.

            The greatest
            crime of the Crusaders was the sacking of Jerusalem, in which at least 3,000
            people were said to have been massacred. This number is dwarfed by the number
            of Jihad victims, from India to Constantinople, Africa and Narbonne, but Muslims
            have never apologized for their crimes and never will.

            What is
            called ‘sin and excess’ by other religions, is what Islam refers to as duty
            willed by Allah.

          2. Abu Mustafa, Wael Feb 23, 2012

            Oh man, you are cutting and pasting instead of thinking for a while? Have not you learned that it is an ethical to cut and paste? 

            It becomes clear that there are those who are spending time, money and efforts to egitate wars on ground; wars that start with words and end with catastrophes, killing the humanity within us, for what, just for satisfying the sick spirits within us!!

            A small question sir, look a round you, but think deeply before answering that question? The question is, who is producing the killing machines and weapons of mass killing, for whom, and for what?

            Please, be true be true be true when you answer my humble question?     

          3. Anonymous Feb 23, 2012

            Well it is definetly not Muslims, because despite your hollow efforts towards convincing us that Muslims have been great scientists, the truth of the matter is they have historically created next to nothing and this is still the case.

            Military technology is remarkably sophisticated stuff and way beyond the grasp of Muslim know-how.

            That said Muslims use the West’s military technology all the time.  Whether it is to kill fellow Muslims in Syria, kill Christians in Egypt, kill blacks and Animists in Sudan, kill Hindus in Pakistan, kill homosexuals in Iran – they do all of this with western technology.

            That said going back 1,000 years Muslims did not need technology to violently conquer all of the Middle East, all of North Africa, huge sections of Asia and Spain and Sicily too.  All they needed was the admonitions from the Qur’an to whip them up into a violent frenzy of unmitigated aggression.

          4. Abu Mustafa, Wael Feb 23, 2012

            thank you very much for your wide chest and enlightening answers, i admit that i was that much ignorant, knowing nothing about past and present and learned a lot of the truth from you. 

            Go ahead.

  6. Wouldyouliketoknow Feb 21, 2012

    The term “Palestine” is believed to be derived from the Philistines, an Aegean people who, in the 12th Century B.C.E., settled along the Mediterranean coastal plain of what are now Israel and the Gaza Strip. In the second century C.E., after crushing the last Jewish revolt, the Romans first applied the name Palaestina to Judea (the southern portion of what is now called the West Bank) in an attempt to minimize Jewish identification with the land of Israel. The Arabic word Filastin is derived from this Latin name.

    In 1937, a local Arab leader, Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, told the Peel Commission, which ultimately suggested the partition of Palestine: “There is no such country as Palestine! ‘Palestine’ is a term the Zionists invented! There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria.” 7 The representative of the Arab Higher Committee to the United Nations echoed this view in a statement to the General Assembly in May 1947, which said Palestine was part of the Province of Syria and the Arabs of Palestine did not comprise a separate political entity. A few years later, Ahmed Shuqeiri, later the chairman of the PLO, told the Security Council: “It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but southern Syria.

  7. Achilles Feb 21, 2012

    Tareq, go back to being a creeper that’s too afraid to talk to females. Your peers think you’re a weirdo and this write up is ridiculous.

    Back to your cave pedobear.

  8. Johnnyz2bad4u52 Feb 21, 2012

    U.N. Resolution 181 was approved by 33 members of the non-binding General Council. David Ben-Gurion unilaterally announced the creation of Israel after that vote. Israel has never had the intention of living in peace with its neighbors. Ben-Gurion’s own words long ago established that fact. Israel whined about Iraq and WMD’s. We lost 100’s of Americans and discovered a country grossly lacking in any WMD’s Now Israel whines again that Iran is the greatest threat. Iran is a member of the IAEA, signed the NPT and has allowed inspections of their nuclear facilities. Israel refuses to join the IAEA, sign the NPT and allow inspections of their nuclear facilities. This is nothing short of rogue behavior. Israel has violated international law for decades with impunity. Not one drop of American blood should be spent for Israel. What has Israel ever done for the U.S. to warrant its “special relationship”? Israel must be isolated and made to account for its rogue behavior and numerous violations of international law.    

    1. Jon Ryan Feb 21, 2012

      UN Resolution 181 is dated November 29, 1949.  Israel’s independence was declared in May 1948 and was accepted as a full member nation by the UN. 
      Israel destroyed an Iraqi nuclear reactor.  Saddam Hussein used poison gas on his own people.  No WMD?
      Iran?  What makes you think that Israel will be the only target of an Iranian nuclear weapon?  Why are the Saudi’s, other Gulf states & Europe concerned about this if they did not feel threatned as well?
      Do you really think that Iran is one of the “good guys” because it joined the IAEA or signed the NPT?  Even the IAEA doesn’t think so as clearly stated in one of their recent reports on Iran.  Do you really think that if there were no Israel there would be no more conflicts in the Mid East?

  9. S0k it Feb 20, 2012

    CSUN is stupid for letting this stay on, the Sundial is dumb for running such a heated article and we all know that no matter what side we are taking we wont change our minds, so become like lilttle kids (oops you are already there) and stop fu&#ing arguing

  10. Vlad Feb 20, 2012

    If Palestine disarmed and chose PEACE, there would be peace.

    If Israel disarmed and chose PEACE, they would be obliterated.

    Netenyahu has promised to negotiate, as soon as Abbas denounces Hamas’ statement of annihilation of Israel.


    1. JM Feb 21, 2012

      No one is asking Israel to disarm you idiot, get real for Peet’s sake. Stop it with your stupid slogans, this bullshit spreads between you Zionists like a cold. What the whole entire world is asking for is to get the hell out of occupied territory and let the Palestinians live like decent human beings.  If Netanyahu wants to negotiate, then he should remove his retarded statements in his OWN Likud charter, which reads: a. “The Jordan river will be the permanent eastern border of the State of Israel.”

      b. “Jerusalem is the eternal, united capital of the State of Israel and only of Israel. The government will flatly reject Palestinia­n proposals to divide Jerusalem”

      c. “The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishm­ent of a Palestinia­n Arab state west of the Jordan river.”When are you going to wake up and realize that it’s Israel that is breaking all the rules and Hamas is just an excuse? Israel is the one in complete violation of international law with their occupation and settlements and Israel has an obligation to back the hell off. If they don’t, then the Palestinians have a legal right to fight occupation and settlements, that is the bottom line, it’s the law.Hurry up and get hip to what the whole world has been saying for decades. Otherwise, Israel may just self-destruct the way it’s going and it will be an end to the Jewish state by their own hands.

      1. Jon Ryan Feb 21, 2012

        The Israeli government has formally accepted the 2 state solution in no uncertain terms, both in Hebrew & English. 
        On June 14, 2009, Netanyahu himself gave a speech in which he said  “In my vision of peace, in this small land of ours, two peoples live freely,
        side-by-side, in amity and mutual respect. Each will have its own flag, its own
        national anthem, its own government. Neither will threaten the security or
        survival of the other.”

        JM, what’s the deal with “You Zionists?”  Surely you must recognize that not all Zionists share the same opinions and attitudes.
        Besides, based on the content of your post, you are most likely referring to Israelis and supporters of Israel- all of whom also have a wide range of opinions and philosophies.

        1. JM Feb 21, 2012

          This is the problem with Israel and especially Netanyahu. He’s a bold-faced liar and he does exactly the opposite of what he says (as does the whole Israeli government and its propaganda machine). He also said he was “committed to no more settlements” but then kept building them anyway, even during the supposed “freeze”.

          Let’s forget about what politicians say (including the Palestinians) because all politicans lie. You can point to one quote on Netanyahu and I can point you to a video where Hamas openly accepted the 2-state solution.

          Look at the actual facts – despite Israel supposedly agreeing to a 2-state soluton and the terms of the Oslo Occord which called for a complete withdrawl of the OT in 5 years, Israel has yet to do this. Ok, you could say, peace got complicated and the Palestinians started another intifada (note however that was 3 years after the expiry date of the Oslo accords). Fair enough.

          But then, what did Israel do in response? It made the occupation much more brutal by literally installing HUNDREDS of checkpoints in the OT, made Gaza into the largest open-air prison, built a repeat Berlin Wall, and then, just to top it off, they built the settlements and Jewish-only roads to connect them which takes up 60% of Palestine. Then they also steal the Palestinians water supply in the WB, and did everything in their power to completely crush the economies of both Gaza and the WB.

          And all of this is NOT ONLY in violation of any previous agreements, but it’s also in complete violation of international law (I note that Israel has blatantly ignored at least 32 UN resolutions in this regard).

          So then what? Are you still going to seriously sit there and tell me it’s the Palestinians fault for being occupied and then taking measures to fight that occupation, which they completely have the right to do under the law? They have the right to defence too, keep in mind, this is not a one-way street. And they agreed to Oslo, they agreed to Camp David, yet nothing changed for them. It’s only gone in reverse! EVEN NOW, they went to the UN and what did they ask for? The exact terms of Oslo and Camp David – 1967 borders and no right of return for refugees. This is exactly in line with what the whole world has agreed to as a just settlement of the conflict for decades – NOTHING HAS CHANGED.

          Yet, who freaks out about it? ONLY TWO COUNTRIES – Israel and the US. And the US as the big bad brother decides to veto the resolution. That’s because they don’t want peace, Israel wants the OT and all Palestinians out. Get real, the facts are completely obvious.

          1. Jon Ryan Feb 21, 2012

            JM, you raise some good points but not all the facts are completely obvious..

            Oslo did not say return to 1967 borders.
            The Palestinians rejected Bill Clinton’s solution at Camp David.
            The Palestinians did not agree to the terms offered to them by Ehud Olmert.
            The Palestinians continue to demand the right of return.  Those truly favoring the 2 state solution must surely understand the implications of the right of return and why for Israel this is a non-starter.
            A repeat Berlin wall?  Not even close.  It’s mostly a fence, although part of the seperation barrier is indeed a wall.
            Notice how suicide bombing inside Israel decreased once the barrier was buillt. 
            The economy in the West Bank is booming.  Don’t take my word for it. Check it out on an impartial website.
            I may be mistaken, but chances are that the Gaza economy would be doing better if not for the thousands of rockets fired into Israel.
            The 60% figure of Palestine is misleading at best and dead wrong in reality.  According to the Bill Clinton plan, it would take roughly 4% of the West Bank to keep 80% of the settlers under Israeli sovereignty.

            My personal belief is that the only solution to this problem is the Bill Clinton plan. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Clinton_Parameters)

      2. Mahonki66 Feb 21, 2012

         JM you lier exactly like Pappe who came yesterday! Or I am sorry, maybe you was mislead or disinformed! Do not trust to RADICAL PEOPLE BUT CHECK THE FACTS!



        And about Jerusalem –  you have to know that it and West bank was takken from…. Palestinian Independance state? No! There were not EVER in entire human history Suveren Muslim/ Arab/ and of course, not Palestinian state. So Jerusalem and West Bank was takken from Jordan during the 6 days War. And Gaza was taken from Egypt.

        now, why Israel did not offer to return the lands to Arab countries? (Another
        interesting point- nobody asked for Palestinian Independence Country, but only
        maybe for return those lands back to Arabs Countries).
         The answer is that
        Israel did offer, but the response of Radical Leaders was in Khartoum
        Resolution in September 1967, that said the famous “Three NO’s”: No peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, and no negotiations
        with Israel. In addition, the resolution 242 of UN that calls for the withdrawal of Israeli forces to the  67 ‘
        lines, but it does not require a full withdrawal on all the fronts.  Arab
        countries didn’t speak with Israel and Israel stayed to wait.

        And do you know
        why fourth Geneva Convention does not fit to the case of West Bank? Because
        this territory was offered by UN in 1947 like the part of Arab state, but it
        was rejected by Arabs and it is mean that it does not obligate another side to
        follow the exact resolution.

        West Bank was annexed into Jordan after the 1948
        and this annexation was recognized by Britain and Pakistan only. However, even if we
        argue that Israel was occupying of WB in relation to
        Jordan, it must be admitted that
        this assertion is not valid today,
        and for two reasons:
        1. Jordan unilaterally
        gave up its claims in the West Bank in
        2. Peace
        agreements with Jordan in 1994 arranged
        for the issue of borders between
        the two countries.

        first big change was with Egypt, when Anwar Sadat realized for the first  time in Arab World that peace is better than
        war and what we have to look for. 
        Israel and Egypt singed peace agreement in
        1979 and Israel returned to Egypt Sinai, but BY THE WAY Egypt did not want to take back
        the Gaza strict. Some historians used to say that this is the date of the start
        Israeli Palestinian conflict, because until this time Israel had 5 wars with
        Egyptian participation and henceforth Israel did not


        1. Joseph Feb 22, 2012

          Mahon: you have been listening to Dershowitz too much. You make a valiant attempt to justify Zionist crimes crimes against the Palestinians by taking a lawyerly approach to past and present misdeeds. For a moment, stop and reflect: in 1948, over 800,000 Palestinians were forcibly removed from their villages (Nakba) and now are housed in refugee camps and who live like dogs. Their villages were bulldozed and are now part of Israel. The IDF occupies in a brutal fashion Gaza, sets up checkpoints, builds highways only for Israelis, murderously assaults Gaza and it’s neighbors because of perceived threats (compare a homemade, primitive rocket with a state f the art missile are in America, et al. Do you really believe this is moral behavior? I do not believe devout followers of Judaism would be proud of the actions of Israel. It’s time to renounce Zionism and return to your moral based on the Torah.

          1. Arafat Feb 22, 2012

            It’s a sad day when Nazi-like comments like Joseph’s become acceptable in a society.

            Like in Nazi Germany this sort of hate-language and distortion of the truth became common and commonly accepted.

            Joseph, do you wear a brown shirt too?

          2. Joseph Feb 22, 2012

            Arafat: I actually thought that your long diatribes futilely attempting to justify Zionist immorality were interesting. But with your last comment asking if I Wore a brown shirt you have relegated yourself to he Dershowitz zone of intellectual dishonesty. My comments were mere questions for Zionist to ponder. Hate language? No. Uncomfortable questions for you? Yes. Please, if you want a constructive debate, do not resort to screaming nonsense.

          3. Jon Ryan Feb 22, 2012


            “compare a homemade, primitive rocket with a state f the art missile are in America, et al? ”  

            Ok, lets compare. 
            Say an Israeli missile lands on your head and blows you to a billion pieces. 
            And now, let’s take a “homemade, primitive rocket” that lands on your head and blows you to 37 pieces.
            Now compare. 
            Does it matter?

            Besides, you may be missing the point here.  The “homemade primitive rockets” are not designed to land on people’s heads and blow them to pieces.  They are designed to terrorize entire populations because there *always* is the chance that a “homemade primitive rocket” will in fact land on somebody’s head.
            Now compare.

          4. Jon Ryan Feb 22, 2012

            “Gaza and its neighbors?”
            What are you talking about? 
            What neighbors?

            Your claim that “over 800,000 were forcibly removed from their villages” is ludicrous.While there certianly were forcible  expulsions, there were very many people who left – often at the ill-advised prodding of their leaders. 
            The fact that, as you claim, “they are housed in refugee camps and who live like dogs” is a catastrophe and a tragedy. A REAL Nakba. 
            There is not a *single* reason on earth why these people couldn’t live in better conditions while everything gets sorted out.  Even if their claim to Palestine is 1,000% true, why leave these people in squalid refugee camps? 
            With all the billions of petro-dollars flowing throughout the Arab world? 
            This is scandelous! 
            No matter what anyone would present as justifications for this, there *is* no justification for it.

            The fact that you believe there is no justification for Israel’s actions does not diminish from this tragedy one iota.

            “Echo the sounds of silence” (not quoting Joseph this time)

          5. Anonymous Feb 24, 2012

            Josepn,  war and conflict produce ugly things and nobody are happy, but the difference between Israelis to Palestinian, that in Israel law and society does not except radicals and illegal behavior.
            So move from the move from the rhetoric to the facts. You speak not about human rights – you speak about destruction of Israel, the one Jewish State. One it is too much?

            1. Arabs and Palestinian, like a part of Arabs initiated war in 1948 and did not except (for the second time! they did not except first time in 1937). Local Arabs joined to the initiative to kill ALL Jews.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peel_Commission

            2. Arabs leaders forced most of the Palestinian  from their houses! Not Jewish.

            3. I agree with you that Arabs world do not care about the “Palestinian Refugees”!
            4.  WB and Gaza is not “occupied territory!”, but disputed territory, and again this is Arab fault and not Jewish.

            5. Brutal action in Gaza? Until the military action in Gaza secular Israelis got 8.600 rockets (until today there were more then 11.000) into their homes, kinder-gardens and etc. Where do you live Joshef? In America? So from tomorrow for the next 8 years you will get 8.600 rockets to your neighborhood and you will afraid to go to the work and send your children to the school, so then you will be able to judge Israelis! Do you know that IDF there is only one army in the world, that call to the houses in the neighborhood where it plans to attack? IDF sends papers with the explanation that say to  people to leave the area! And etc. and etc.  Not moral? To attack secular population in the homes without any reason- this is not moral! Israelis can be proud that IDF did not sent 8600 rockets back to the secular population in Gaza! In this is case you could say that this is amoral!

            6. Checkpoints were  built , only to protect Israelis from terror. Do you think that Israelis enjoy to be there? They enjoy to check people? If some “bad apple” of IDF does something bad – he immediately punished by the IDF law.
             Before terror was started in ’90s Israelis went to WB and to Gaza to the markets, stores and to eat amazing Arab food! And ALL  POPULATION OF ISRAEL PRAY FOR THE DAY WHEN THEY WILL BE ABLE TO DO IT AGAIN!

             7. The road 443 was closed to Palestinian only after the terror attacks to the Israelis.

            Joseph, you care about Palestinian?  Stand against Arab real apartheid and radicals!

            You can say that you stand against the conditions of Palestinian in Gaza and WB. So stand against the own government of Hamas and of Fatah, who got millions of millions of $ from all the world and instead to improve basic conditions for their people, they stole the money for themselves or bought the arms!

            The real solution to everyone- will be peace!
             You care about the refugees and the peace?
            (Btw, please point on ONE attempt of Palestinian to achieve peace? People – yes, but leadership- no! )

            So support Israel in its real attempts to achieve  Peace!      ( in1993/ 2000/ 2006)

            Or tell me what is your solution? one state? why, because one Jewish state is too much? and 56 Islamic is too few?

             And remember that both sides want two- state solution?
            So help to moderate Palestinian and Israelis to achieve what they want!

             P.S. And do not be two-faced, ask yourself what you expect to do with Jewish refugees, who were forced by Arabs from Arabs countries. Why will return them their property?

  11. Joseph Feb 20, 2012

    Arafat:The hasbara that you have absorbed and and dutifully presented concerning the 1967 War is incorrect, so that what followed in your polemic is misleading. The 1967 War was purely pre-emptive according to Prime Minister Begin the Irgun terrorist who ordered the Deir Yasin massacre of Palestinians during the Nakba in 1948 where 122 Palestinians we’re massacred. Because it was a war of choice it does not have a legitimate basis to retain the land. The United nations whose resolutions you cite selectively declared that land seized by war is illegal. The U.N. General Assembly passed thevResolution in 1947 which created the modern state of Israel and I do not believe you ave challenged that.
    Several other points you have made are incorrect but it would be tedious in this forum. However, one question: knowing how violent Muslims according to your comments begs the question:why did thevZionist choose Palestine to make it’s homeland after 2000 years?

    1. Arafat Feb 20, 2012

      Part I.

      Gosh Joseph what a difficult question.  Your intellect is quite something to have thought up a question as challenging as this.

      The “Zionist’s” or Jews began in Israel.  The first Jew lived in Isreal.  This was 1,000 years (or thereabouts) before the killer prophet named Mohammed was even born.  The Jewish holy books all refer to Israel as their promised land, their homeland, while none of the Muslim holy books mention Jerusalem, or Israel, or Palestine once.

      Anti-Semitism, something you are all too familiar with, is man’s oldest prejudice dating back over 3,000 years.  Jews were slaves in Egypt 3,000 years ago and the Jew’s first and second temples were destroyed by invaders who hated Jews.  Jews were slaughtered by Mohammed and his men in the Arabian Peninsula and were subject to prejudice by both Muslims and Christians throughout the last many centuries.  This all culminated in the Holocaust in which 1/3rd of the Jewish total population was killed.  An entire Jewish civilization created in Eastern Europe was literally wiped off the map.

      This was the final straw that broke the anti-Semites back in the sense that it finally became apparent that the only way the Jews would live without prejudice, hatred and being treated as scum was by giving them their homeland, their promised land back.

      Jews did not choose Israel as their homeland for Jews have considered it their promised land for 3,000 years.

      1. Arafat Feb 20, 2012

        Part II.

        In sharp contrast to Jews and their homeland stands the Muslims and their notion of a homeland.  Of course in Islam and in Islam’s holy books ALL lands belong to Islam, i.e., all of the planet Earth is Islam’s homeland.
        This is why we see Muslims fighting Russians in southern Russia, Chinese in NW China, Buddhists in southern Thailand, Hindus in Pakistan and Bangladesh, Christians in Egypt and Iraq and Nigeria, Zoroastrians in Iran and Baha’is there too, Kurds in Turkey, black Africans in Sudan and Somalia.
        Meanwhile this is also why we find no Berbers left in North Africa as Muslims wiped them all out in their evil quest to create a worldwide Caliphate.  Muslims did the same thing to the Copts and Chaldeans, the Armenians and Assyrians, all the Buddhists of Afghanistan were long ago murdered, al the black Africans in Sudan have been killed or forcibly converted, and on and on and on it goes. 
        Islam considers Israel their land just as they consider Kashmir their land and just as they consider every spec of Earth their “homeland”.  The Jews, on the other hand, just want their promised land back so that they can live in peace and protect themselves from man’s oldest prejudice, but unfortunately the anti-Semites of the world, like Joseph, won’t even allow Jews that piece of peace.  For in their perverted minds Israel should be one more Islamic failed state in which Hamas throws Fatah off of rooftops and Fatah shoots Hamas in the back.  We could call this new land Hamaistan and Sharia would rule the day.  All homosexuals would be killed, all women required to wear burkas, the Jews would be pushed into the Mediterranean and the Muslim Caliphate would be one nation stronger.
        “Allahu Akbar!”  The Muslims shouted as they gang-raped one more Sudanese women and left a tear in her soul that would never recover from their inhumanity.

      2. Joseph Feb 21, 2012

        Arafat: you are profoundly wrong by asserting that “the Zionist…began in Israel over 2000 years ago when fact Zionism is a relatively new concept promoted bt Theodore Herzel who instituted the first Zionist convention in Vienna in 1897 where the policies of Zionism were developed. It is a colonialist movement modeled after those of imperial Europe. The choice of sites to establish a homeland included Uganda but Palestine was chosen instead. Ben Guerion Israel’s first president wrote in his diary that the ultimate goal of Zionism was to take ALL of the land fro Jordan to the Med sea.

        Secondly, your long diatribes will not change minds through sensational and lurid stories about the mean old Muslims, nor will the lawyerly approach will not work either. Just observe the facts : that Israel continues to occupy Palestinian land and treats the people brutally. Israel will survive relying only on the sword.

        1. Jon Ryan Feb 21, 2012

          You are picking and choosing your facts.  One cannot ignore the fact that it takes 2 sides to make peace.
          When you say “Palestinian land,” your meaning is not clear.  Do you mean all of mandatory Palestine or just the west bank & Gaza.

          Ben Gurion was never Israel’s president.  He was prime minister.   Also, even if Zionism’s goal was to take “ALL” the land, the fact is that they agreed to the partition plan dividing the land into 2 states.  Actions speak louder than words.
          Interestingly enough, in 1897 there was no Palestinian state either 

          Why on earth would the Jews consider Uganda as a home land?  There was never, ever, any historical Jewish connection to Uganda.
          The same cannot be said for Palestine as there is well-documented proof of Jewish presence in the land going back for over 2,000 years.  Do you not accept this fact?

          1. JM Feb 21, 2012

            If you want to talk about actions, then you need to include the fact that it too Israel no less than 2 years to WAY overstep the 1947 partition. It’s been proven in fact that the Zionists reluctantly accepted the partion on the ground that they would just take more land anyway. Read Avi Shlaim’s book “The Iron Wall” which clearly proves this based on official Israeli documents released in the 1980s, as well as Ben-Gurion’s diary entries and conversations with other Israeli officials. The plan was, and still is, ALL OF PALESTINE and Israel has proven this through it’s actions of breaking every agreement made, all international agreements pertaining to the conflict and also building settlements in the OT. And don’t even try mentioning that they removed the settlements from Gaza because they just moved those settlements to the WB, i.e. from one occupied territory to the other occupied territory.

            So what there was Jewish presence in Palestine? There has been Jewish presence everywhere. Does all of Europe need to go to the Jews too? There have been Jews in Poland for over 1,000 years, do they get Poland?

            The fact is that Palestine was the one place where Jews and Palestinians lived in peace and the Palestinians even consider those Jews who lived in Palestine before Zionism as part of their identity! Read the PLO Charter from the 60s, they advocated that the Zionists get out and any Palestinian Jews stay.

            All your facts mean nothing.

          2. Jon Ryan Feb 21, 2012

            Did you forget that Israel was attacked by 5 Arab armies who did not accept the partition plan and that accounts for what you call overstepping the 1947 partition.
            Reluctant or not, the partition plan was accepted. Arab acceptance of the partition plan would have resulted in an immediate creation of a Palestinian state.

            It makes sense that Palestine was the one place where Jews and Palestinians lived in peace because in a sense, and based on your logic, it was the only place where Palestinians lived.  Besides, it is not entirely true that they lived in Peace.

            Poland?  That’s kind of harsh.  1,000 years of Polish Jewry were wiped out in less than 3 years in the 1940’s.

            There wasn’t only a Jewish presence in Palestine.  There was a sovreign Jewish kingdom there.

    2. Vincent Feb 20, 2012

      Joseph- You sir are incorrect. The 67 war was no pre-emptive. Arafat has made many good point, not the least of which is how they were repaid when they turned Gaza over to the Palestinian authority.  Rockets rain down daily upon Israel from Gaza.  They should not make the same mistake with the West Bank or any other land.

      1. Zooey Feb 25, 2012

        VIncent:  The Israelis were the first to cross the borders with a pre-emptive attack.
        On June 1, Israel formed a National Unity Government by widening its
        cabinet, and on June 4 the decision was
        made to go to war. The next morning, Israel launched Operation
        Focus [Israeli code name “Moked”], a large-scale surprise air strike that was
        the opening of the Six-Day War.

        1. Anonymous Feb 25, 2012

          May 22, Egypt closed the Straits of Tiran to Israeli shipping and all foreign
          ships bound for Israel’s Red Sea port of Eilat, an act of war that cut the
          route from Israel’s main oil supplier, Iran. Nasser continued to threaten
          Israel, asserting on May 27 that coexistence was out of the question and that
          “the war with Israel is in existence since 1948.” Jordan signed a
          defense pact with Egypt on May 30. Other Arab countries sent forces to Egypt
          and Jordan to assist, and by June 4, approximately 250,000 enemy troops with
          more than 2,000 tanks and 700 aircraft surrounded Israel. By then on a socially
          and economically unsustainable alert for three weeks, Israel’s best option was
          to pre-empt Arab attack, which it did on June 5, first knocking out the Egyptian
          air force. Years later, Salah al-Hadidi, the Egyptian judge presiding over
          trials of army officers held accountable for the his country’s defeat, admitted
          Egypt’s responsibility for causing the war: “I can state that Egypt’s
          political leadership called Israel to war. It clearly provoked Israel and
          forced it into a confrontation” (Michael Oren, Six Days of War, 310-11).

          state of war existed with Syria in the months and years leading up to June 5,
          1967. Artillery exchanges and hundreds of attempted infiltrations occurred
          between February 1966 and May 1967. At noon on June 5, Syrian aircraft attacked
          Israeli villages in the North of the country. Israel struck back almost
          immediately and destroyed much of Syria’s air force. That same day, Syrians
          artillery attacked Israel from positions in the Golan Heights. On June 6, Syria
          opened the morning with an intense artillery bombardment followed by an attack
          on the Israeli communities of Tel Dan, Kibbutz Shaar Yashuv and Ashmura. The
          attack was repelled by Israeli forces. Israel attacked Syrian forces on the
          Golan Heights on June 9, and concluded the operation on June 10.

          Israel’s entreaties to King Hussein to stay out of the war, Jordan shelled
          Jerusalem and Tel Aviv on June 5th and then occupied the United Nations
          headquarters in Jerusalem. Israeli forces responded and drove the Jordanian
          forces out of Jerusalem and the West Bank by June 7th.

          what they perceived as the existential crisis leading to the Six-Day War, no
          Israeli political leader argued in favor of conflict on the basis that it would
          enable the country to conquer new lands. The debate was over how to avoid what
          appeared to be impending destruction, not how to expand. While a pre-emptive strike
          was seen as one way to avoid being wiped out, Israeli Prime Minster Levy Eshkol
          looked for a diplomatic resolution to the crisis, and insisted on delaying all
          military action as long as possible so that to allow for diplomacy to run its
          course — even whil military officials warned that delays would work to
          Egyptian’s advantage by allowing them to build their forces.

          That Israel
          had not considered a war for conquest became clear almost as soon as the fighting
          ended on June 10, 1967. The national unity government appeared to be looking
          for a way to shed most of the newly-acquired territory. (The Sinai Peninsula,
          Golan Heights, West Bank [Judea and Samaria] and Gaza Strip more than tripled
          the area under Israel’s control.) In Defense Minister Moshe Dayan’s phrase,
          Israel was “waiting for a telephone call” from Arab leaders,
          expecting to hear that now they were ready to negotiate peace. Some Israeli
          leaders asserted that the country would never return to the vulnerable, pre-war
          armistices lines of 1949 and 1950 or permit the newly-reunified Jerusalem to be
          divided again; nevertheless, Foreign Minister Abba Eban said the Jewish state
          would be “unbelievably generous in working out peace terms.” In
          direct talks with Arab countries, “everything is negotiable,” he

          But Arab leaders rejected
          negotiations, rejected recognition, and rejected peace. Even so, rather than
          annex the West Bank or Gaza Strip, for example, Israel instituted a military
          administration and maintained their status under international law as disputed
          territories, subject to eventual negotiations. This suggested that the country
          did not intend to absorb these areas, or the bulk of them, into Israel proper.
          Further, Israel eventually negotiated the return of the Sinai – site of
          Israeli-developed oil fields, Israeli-built air bases, and the
          newly-constructed Jewish town of Yamit with its surrounding agricultural
          settlements – to Egypt as part of the 1979 peace treaty. The 1993 Oslo accords
          with the Palestine Liberation Organization, and their provisions for final
          status talks by 1998 on the West Bank and Gaza Strip, much of which were to be
          administered by the new Palestinian Authority, likewise confirmed that the
          Six-Day War had not been launched for territorial conquest.

    3. Jon Ryan Feb 21, 2012

      “why did the Zionist choose Palestine to make it’s homeland after 2000 years?”
      Palestine *is* their homeland. There has been a continuous Jewish presence there for over 2,000. The land was captured by the Romans in 70 AD and most of the Jews were exiled, but they never gave up their claim to the land.

      1. JM Feb 21, 2012

        I suggest you check your history again. The Jews were never exiled and this has been proven by Israeli historians and archaeologists:@a47422403c5fa10e0d99336f1260edd1:disqus 

        “The myth of exile from Palestine receives only minimal treatment in serious Jewish historical scholarship” (Wikipedia: Jewish Diaspora)

        “No ‘nationalist’ Jewish historian has ever tried to conceal the well-known fact that conversions to Judaism had a major impact on Jewish history and in the early Middle Ages. Although the myth of an exile from the Jewish homeland (Palestine) does exist in popular Israeli culture, it is negligible in serious Jewish historical discussions. Important groups in the Jewish national movement expressed reservations regarding this myth or denied it completely” (Professor Israel Bartal, Hebrew University, 2009)So you can let go of your stupid theory of exile, it never happened.

        BUT, even if it did, are you seriously claiming that the statute of limitations for the “claim” to the land should last for 2,000 years?! LOL, are you serious or just stupid? Who the hell told you that you have the right to move everyone off the land and keep it for Jews only? What kind of a racist, retarded theocracy are you trying to sell?

        Just get over it already man, the Holocaust was horrible and inexcusable – but it’s over and is extremely unlikely to happen again. Jews don’t need to live in a theocratic, Jewish-only racist state just to have a refuge, especially if it means repeating bad history and being as horrible to the Palestinians as others were to the Jews.

        No one is telling Israel to disappear, just get the hell out of the territories and let Palestine live. The Palestinians have suffered enough, not the least of which was unfairly losing their homeland which is extremely dear to them (trust me, more dear than it is to the world’s Jews). If the Palestinians chose to attack after you COMPLETELY retreat – I’m not talking a fake retreat like Gaza where you still control air space, all borders and water and basically created the world’s largest open-air prison – then you have a right to defence, and we all know Israel is well capable of defending itself.

        At this point, no matter what you say, you are in the wrong according to international law and widespread opinion and you are only the aggressor. No one is buying the defence argument.

        1. Jon Ryan Feb 21, 2012

          Stupid? Racist? Retarded?  Stupid theories? Have I used this kind of language in response to you?

          “Who the hell told you that you have the right etc…”
          For one, I am not Jewish. Secondly, Israel is not a theocratic, Jewish-only racist state.  There is an Arab population of approximately 20% that enjoy equal rights under Israeli law.  Case in point, a deputy speaker of the Israeli Parliament is an Arab.  There are Arab judges and there have been Arab ministers in the past.  Sure there is discrimination but that true for almost every country with minorities.  There is also discrimination among Jews there.
          Have you ever visited the region?  I have spent years in the Mid East, mostly in Lebanon, Saudi Arabia & Jordan, but also in Israel.

          Tell me, JM, how far back does the Palestinian claim to the land go?
          Is it within the statute of limitations?

          I claim that the Jewish Exile did happen. Differing opionions and hopefully an agreement to disagree.

          Another Holocaust is extremely unlikely to happen?  On what are you basing this?  Also, I am sure that you can forgive Israel for not taking your word on this.

          1. Jon Ryan Feb 21, 2012

            Oh, one more thing.
            You say that Israel is “being as horrible to the Palestinians as others were to the Jews.”
            Six million jews were killed during WWII alone.  One thing does not justify another, but your comparison between the two seem to be absurd at best if not racist at worst.

            Over 8,000 Arabs were killed in Syria in less than 1 year- more than all the Palestinian deaths in over 60 years.  You just don’t want Israel to exist, right? 

  12. Arafat Feb 20, 2012

    The cartoon illustration adjacent to this article tells us everything we need to know about how pack-filled with lies this article is.
    The cartoon shows an IDF women striding through Gaza and into the Sinai Peninsula.
    I guess the cartoonist is either on acid or is a progeny of Joseph Goebbels for anyone who knows even the slightest bit about the history in that region knows Israel gave back the Sinai Peninsula to Egypt in 1973 and Israel withdrew all settlers from Gaza in 2009.
    But why should the cartoonist bother herself with facts when the author of the article perjures himself like it is going out of fashion.

    1. Mahonki66 Feb 21, 2012

      I totally agree with you, but

      * Israel withdrew from Gaza completly in 2005.
      * Israel gave Sinai back to Egypt after 1979, when Israel and Egypt signed Peace agreement.

  13. Vincent Feb 20, 2012

    The fact is, that there has been a continuous Jewish presence in Israel long before the time of Muhammed. Another fact is that Israel has been under attack since its creation and continues to be today. Israel does exist, in reality and legally, yet many Muslim nations do not recognize Israel and refers to her as the ZIONIST *ENEMY*.

    A real peace could be had- but it is entirely in Muslim hands to genuinely seek it as Egypt and Jordan have. Instead,  the rest of the Muslim world wold rather watch the Palestinians suffer than help create security and prosperity for both the Palestinians and Israelis.

  14. Arafat Feb 20, 2012

    In the core Islamic texts, there is a great deal that drives the Arab world to reject compromise with Jews and Israel
    For example, Muhammad says the earth belongs to Muhammad and Allah, warns the Jews to accept Islam if they wish to be safe, and tells them he wants to deport them:
    In Sahih Muslim, a canonical hadith collection:
    Book 019, Number 4363:
    It has been narrated on the authority of Abu Huraira who said: We were (sitting) in the mosque when the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) came to us and said: (Let us) go to the Jews. We went out with him until we came to them. The Messenger of Allah [Muhammad] (may peace be upon him) stood up and called out to them (saying):
    O ye assembly of Jews, accept Islam (and) you will be safe.
    They said: Abu’l-Qasim, you have communicated (God’s Message to us). The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said:
    I want this (i. e. you should admit that God’s Message has been communicated to you), accept Islam and you would be safe.
    They said: Abu’l-Qisim, you have communicated (Allah’s Message). The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: I want this… – He said to them (the same words) the third time (and on getting the same reply) he [Muhammad] added:
    You should know that the earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle, and I wish that I should expel you from this land. Those of you who have any property with them should sell it, otherwise they should know that the earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle (and they may have to go away leaving everything behind).
    See: http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/muslim/019.smt.html#019.4363
    More core Islamic texts that explain why the Muslim Arab world rejects Israel
    From page 464 (690 in the Arabic) of the earliest Muslim biography of Muhammad, Muhammad presides over the beheading of 600 to 900 Jews:
    Then [the Banu Qurayza tribe] surrendered, and the apostle [Muhammad] confined them in Medina in the quarter of d. al-Harith, a woman of B. al-Najjar. Then the apostle went out to the market of Medina (which is still its market today) and dug trenches in it. Then he sent for them and struck off their heads in those trenches as they were brought out to him in batches. Among them was the enemy of Allah Huyayy b. Akhtab and Ka`b b. Asad their chief. There were 600 or 700 in all, though some put the figure as high as 800 or 900. As they were being taken out in batches to the apostle they asked Ka`b what he thought would be done with them. He replied, ‘Will you never understand? Don’t you see that the summoner never stops and those who are taken away do not return? By Allah it is death!’ This went on until the apostle made an end of them.
    On page 369 (554 in the Arabic) of the earliest Muslim biography of Muhammad, Muhammad says “kill any Jew who falls into your power”:
    It’s a “beautiful” story of two brothers, Muhayyissa and Huwayyisa: (To avoid confusing the two brothers, keep in mind that the brother whose name begins with M is the Murderer in the story.)
    “The apostle [Muhammad] said, ‘Kill any Jew that falls into your power.’ Thereupon Muhayyisa bin Masud leapt upon Ibn Sunayna, a Jewish merchant with whom they had social and business relations, and killed him. Huwayisa was not a Muslim at the time though he was the elder brother. When Muhayyisa killed [the Jewish merchant] Huwayyisa began to beat [his brother Muhayyisa], saying, ‘You enemy of God, did you kill him when much of the fat on your belly comes from his wealth?’ Muhayyisa answered, ‘Had the one who ordered me to kill him ordered me to kill you I would have cut your head off.’…[Huwayyisa] replied, ‘By God, if Muhammad had ordered you to kill me would you have killed me?’ [Muhayissa] said, ‘Yes, by God, had he ordered me to cut off your head I would have done so.’ [Huwayyisa] exclaimed, “By God, a religion which can bring you to this is marvellous!’ and [Huwayyisa] became a Muslim.”
    In core Islamic texts, Muhammad says that one day the very trees and stones will help Muslims to kill Jews.
    He says it both in Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim, Islam’s two most canonical hadith collections:
    Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 56, Number 791:
    Narrated ‘Abdullah bin ‘Umar:I heard Allah’s Apostle saying, “The Jews will fight with you, and you will be given victory over them so that a stone will say, ‘O Muslim! There is a Jew behind me; kill him!’ ”
    Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176:
    Narrated ‘Abdullah bin ‘Umar:Allah’s Apostle [Muhammad] said, “You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, ‘O ‘Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.’ ”
    Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177:
    Narrated Abu Huraira:Allah’s Apostle [Muhammad] said, “The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. “O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him.”
    Sahih Muslim, Book 041, Number 6981:
    Ibn ‘Umar reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: You will fight against the Jews and you will kill them until even a stone would say: Come here, Muslim, there is a Jew (hiding himself behind me); kill him.
    Sahih Muslim, Book 041, Number 6983:
    Abdullah b. ‘Umar reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: You and the Jews would fight against one another until a stone would say: Muslim, here is a Jew behind me; come and kill him.
    Sahih Muslim, Book 041, Number 6984:
    Abdullah b. ‘Umar reported that Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: The Jews will fight against you and you will gain victory over them until the stone would say: Muslim, here is a Jew behind me; kill him.
    Sahih Muslim Book 041, Number 6985:
    Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Messenger [Muhammad] (may peace be upon him) as saying: The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.
    There is much, much more.

  15. Arafat Feb 20, 2012

    So this is our fault.  Or, am I mistaken and it’s colonialism’s fault or imperialism’s fault or Israel’s fault instead.  It goes without saying it is not Islam’s fault and the repressive, violent, threatening doctrine that underlies that religion.
    Problem is this does not explain why Islam is creating havoc and violence in Sudan, Nigeria, Kashmir, southern Thailand where 5,000 Buddhists have been violently killed by Muslims, or Lebanon where the Christian demographic has plummeted from 60% down to 30% in the last several decades and all their leaders have been assassinated, or Bangladesh and Pakistan where the Hindu demographic has also plummeted while the Muslim demographic in India has soared. 
    We all know this is not Islam’s fault for Islam is perfect.  We all know instead it is those nasty Buddhists in southern Thailand who are causing the unrest, and the poor starving black Sudanese who are responsible for 2.6 million dead, and the Coptic Christians of Alexandria for their slow but steady extermination from a place they have called home for millennia. 
    It could never be Islam’s fault because we’re all liberal college punks and professors who are always going to blame the west for all the world’s problems.  That’s the way it is and that’s who we are.

    1. djt1948 Feb 20, 2012

      You present what is sometimes called “the kitchen sink argument” which can be explained by the metaphor of throwing all the dirty dishes into the kitchen sink and letting them sit there.  If you would just address the one real issue that is Palestine, you would probably have nothing useful to say.  The real problem in this area is that Israel has been consistently stealing Palestine’s land since 1948.  What would you expect the Palestinian’s reaction to be?

      1. Jon Ryan Feb 20, 2012

        What do you actually mean when writing  “that Israel has been consistently stealing Palestine’s land since 1948.”  It’s a very general statement.  I might have something useful to say if you can be more specific.

        1. Arafat Feb 20, 2012

          My approach is to show that at its core this conflict is about Muslim hatred of Jews.  A hatred that dates back to Mohammed.
          This hatred (and, by the way, it also extends to all non-Muslims) is the real reason for this conflict.
          Furthermore, Israel “stole” no land.  Israel was invaded by 5 pathetic Muslim armies in 1967 and preceded to beat all five armies in a blink of an eye.  Per the Geneva Convention a defensive participant in a war can legally capture land it deems necessary for its defense, and the high ground surrounding Jerusalem and Tel Aviv is what Israel controls.
          Furthermore it has been shown time and time again that every time Israel concedes anything to the Palestinians – or Muslims more generally – they reciprocate by launching missiles into Israel.  Which suggests controlling the high ground and manning checkpoints to ensure rockets are not also smuggled into the West Bank is the sane way for a nation to act to protect its citizens.
          “Allahu Akbar!”  They shouted out as they cut off Daniel Pearl’s head which was the same thing Mohammed and his men shouted as they beheaded the Jews in their village of Qurayza.

      2. Vincent Feb 20, 2012

        Sorry DJT… There is no “Palestinian” land. All of the land before Israel belonged to Jordan.

  16. Arafat Feb 20, 2012

    Could someone explain this conundrum for me? Why is it Muslims are free to violently conquer lands anywhere and everywhere without a word of protest from American Muslims, or any Muslims for that matter, but if Jews have a legally established homeland Muslims will never stop protesting against it? Why is this do you suppose? What explanation can be given other than as the Qur’an states repeatedly that Islam’s goal is to establish a worldwide caliphate in which all non-Muslims are subjugated. For instance, Mohammed was born around 571 AD thousands and thousands of years after Hinduism, Buddhism and Judaism existed. But within a few centuries of Mohammed’s birth Islam had violently conquered vast sections of Asia, all of North Africa and smaller sections of Southern Europe. Now Muslims tell us that all this land belongs to them even though, for instance, in Afghanistan they killed every last Buddhist who once lived there. According to Muslim logic per Israel shouldn’t this land belong to the Buddhists? Or in North Africa all the Berbers have been forcibly converted to Islam or have been killed and now we’re told all this vast landmass belongs to Islam. That’s interesting, if not completely hypocritical. And what about Southern Thailand. Did anyone know that in the last several years something like 5,000 Buddhists have been killed by Muslims because, or so we’re told, the land the Buddhists are on belongs to Islam. And Southern Russia? Muslims are relentlessly waging a slow reign of terror in Russia because, you guessed it, Russians are treating Muslims poorly and they should give up the Southern section of that country to Muslims. Or, let’s take Sudan as another example. How many millions have been killed in Sudan? How many babies and children have starved in Sudan while Islamists steal the food from aid compounds? How many women have Muslims gang-raped in Sudan all because that land belongs to Muslims and only Muslims. All other people can go somewhere else to live, I guess. And Kashmir? The same. Despite Hindus having lived there for 5,000 years – something like 4,000+ years before Mohammed was born – Muslims tell us Kashmir belongs to them. Amazing logic isn’t it? And that brings us to Israel. Israel also belongs to Islam. Did you know that? It’s true. Even though it’s no bigger than a small pimple on the caliphate’s ass it is still their land and they will fight to the death to prove their point. Doesn’t the logic here make a lot of sense. Isn’t it as clear as day? Of course it is. The world belongs to Islam and we’re mere players on their stage.

    1. Achilles Feb 21, 2012

      Fuck yeah dude

  17. CSUNStudent Feb 20, 2012

    Guess what?  I don’t care!

    1. Djt1948 Feb 20, 2012

      You are part of the reason that this evil continues.

      1. Mahonki66 Feb 21, 2012


        You are pro Peace and pro Palestinian? So Be PRO Israel and NOT ANTI!

        Israeli are only one who really looking for the PEACE so many years!


        do Jewish and Palestinian people suffer differently? Do they have a different
        color of the blood? Do the people are not looking for peace and security? Do we have different dreams and cares?

        be against Israel will not resolve:

        -the terroristic attacks on Israeli civil citizens.Dozens of thousands Isarelis attacked almost every day by rockets from
        GAZA! Thouthands of Jewish children have 15 seconds to run to the
        shelter! There were more than 12.000 of rockets sent to Israeli  secular
        people since 2000 and only by Hamas! Hundreds of suicide bombers killed Israeli civil people! (What is you response to terror? You forgot 9/11?) So ask yourself trully why Hamas does it?

        – the
        cynic uses of Hamas of children and women, like a human shields. YES
        YES YES!!!You are human righths activist, do Google about it

        – the using of Palestinian people for the industry of terror, like single woman
        who was raped in 2002 and then was sent to be suicide bomber instead of honor
        Do you know that some Palestinian women came to attacked Israeli
        soldiers with the kitchen knife …. do you know why? BECAUSE THEY ARE

        – the using of Palestinian children to transfer bombs.

        – the education for peace of Palestinian people and
        for hate. check the website of Palestinian media watch! All Israeli
        mothers used to say  :'” I went to the army and I hope that when my
        children will be 18 it will be peace and  they will not have to do it
        also!” What Radical Palestinian government is teaching their children?
        To be suisice bomber!


        – the using International community aid to terror goals instead to the
        infrastructure for Palestinian people.

        – the Palestinian refugees , who still be a hostages of Radical Countries that use UN to promote hate against Jews until today instead to look for real solution.

        Because of the same Radical leaders were more interested to keep the Palestinian Arabs without human conditions until today in Arab countries (do google about Palestinian in Lebanon or Syria) instead to look for the peace and co-existence. To really understand how Radical people were not interested to help Palestinian People, they demanded from UN to establish special Palestinian Refugees organization. Did you know that there is UNHCR (United Nation High Commissioner for Refugees) that take care about all refugees in the world and help them to integrate or resettle in the new country, but there is another organization, UNRWA (United Nation Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees) that take care only about
        Refugees and does not help them to integrate, but “pending a solution
        to their plight.”  And if you will check you will very surprised about
        the special definition only for Palestinian Refugees, like “Palestine refugees are people whose normal place of residence was Palestine between June 1946 and May 1948”.

        Who were interested to create organization that instead the resolve the Refugees problem – maintain it? How Palestinian person feels today in Lebanon for instance, that he is the 3rd generation of refugees, when Lebanon doesn’t give him citizenship, avoid from him basic rights for health care, employment in most occupations and etc? 


         The answer again is Radical Leaders who did not and some of them even today do not care about their own People, and prefer Palestinian live like this, but still keep “unresolved problem”, like weapon against Jewish state.

         – the poor conditions of the Palestinians in Arabs countries.

        – the check points, that will stay at the same place to wait for the real peace!

        – the suffer of the Arab and Jewish mothers, who lost their children in the

        So there are proofs that to be a real “Pro Palestinian” and “Pro Peace”  it is mean to be against radicalism and terror! it is to help Palestinian to cope with their Radical leaders and to help Israel to achieve peace, that all Israelies trully hope for!

    2. Arafat Feb 20, 2012

      Although many substantive legal arguments support the right of Jews to build in Judea, Samaria (the West Bank) and the eastern part of Jerusalem, Israeli communities are accused of being “illegal” according to “international law”. But, what is this “law” and who decided that Israel was guilty?
      UN resolutions are not laws, or sources of laws. The UN’s primary judicial organ, the International Court of Justice (ICJ) issues advisory opinions which are only recommendations, and, although they are influential, are not proper legal decisions. Unable to get a fair hearing before the ICJ, Israel does not appear there.
      In fact, the UN Charter (Article 10) does not grant the General Assembly, or the ICJ the authority to determine the ownership of disputed territories – although it does so anyway.
      “The law” is the Fourth Geneva Convention (GC IV)  – one of the most important sources of conventional international and humanitarian law. The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC), the official “guardian” of the GC IV, met secretly at their headquarters in Geneva in 1971 and unilaterally decided that Jewish communities built in areas acquired after the Six Day War were actually “illegal” because they “violated” GC IV. Because ICRC rulings are considered authoritative, they are used by the international community to condemn Israeli “settlements,” and “occupation.”
      The legal status of Palestine, designated as the “Jewish national homeland,” was established by the League of Nations (1920), the San Remo Agreements (1920) and the British Mandate (1922), and endorsed by the US Congress; that was “the law,” and remains so today, despite the ICRC.
      ICRC and UN Resolutions declared that “Israeli settlements are illegal.” They didn’t say, however, to whom this territory belongs. Palestinian leaders have said they will declare sovereignty and ask for UN recognition. But, with the Palestinian Authority (PA) divided between Fatah and Hamas, its leadership shaky, who rules? And who will rule in the future?
      Arab leaders themselves can’t decide about a second Arab Palestinian state (the first was Transjordan, established in 1921, two-thirds of whose population is Palestinian) since that means accepting Israel. However, none are willing to give up the “Palestinian right of return,” in other words, the control of eastern Jerusalem and the elimination of settlements.
      UN recognition of the PLO, beginning in 1974, six months after it massacred school-children in Ma’alot, provided legitimacy, but the PLO – “the sole representative of the Palestinian people” — has rejected the “two-state-solution” as an end-of-conflict. Its charter, calling for the elimination of Israel by force, remains unchanged.
      The Oslo Accords (1993), Hebron Agreement (1997), Wye River Accords (1998) and Gaza Disengagement (2005), which gave the PA large areas of Judea, Samaria and all of Gaza and placed nearly all Arab residents of these areas under PA rule, provided the basis for self-government, and eventual statehood.
      Legal questions regarding Jewish presence in Judea, Samaria and eastern Jerusalem remain; the ICRC’s decisions, therefore, are crucial. Since ICRC deliberations and protocols are secret, however, there is no way of knowing how they arrived at their decisions, nor is there any possibility of appeal.
      The ICRC’s unique interpretation, contrary to the obvious intent and purpose of GC IV, was designed specifically to thwart Israeli settlements. It was never applied in a comparable situation elsewhere.
      Opposing Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria and Jerusalem may be politically expedient, a convenient charge to indict Israel, but assaulting their legality is baseless. Many prominent jurists and the Israeli government have rejected charges of “illegality” and “occupation,” arguing that the provisions of GC IV do not apply, and that, at best, these areas should be called “disputed,” subject to negotiations.
      Despite the ICRC’s refusal to open its archives and explain itself, in defiance of all democratic and judicial norms of conduct, accountable to no one, and deliberately distorting facts, their decisions are widely accepted as law. We need to know how and why the ICRC made those decisions. What are they hiding, and why?

    3. CSUNAlumnus Feb 20, 2012

      Guess what? You’re an idiot!

      1. Jon Ryan Feb 20, 2012

        Wow. What a great argument.

  18. Joseph Tillotson Feb 20, 2012

    Mr. Ryan’s lawyerly approach to justify Israel’s war crimes can not withstand the history of the Zionist ‘ murderous treatment of the Palestinians and destruction of their civilization since the Nakba in 1948. In his search for a legalistic justification of apartheid and genocide, he ignores the glaring facts: that Israel is a pariah state among the world’s nations; that without the backing of our Congress (bought and paid for by AIPAC), Israel would have no allies in the world; and that if it really aspires to be a democratic, viable nation and while continuing to occupy the Palestinians’ land, it will have to change its policies and behavior, or else the state of Israel will be built on a dung heap of immorality. This is not Judaism’s finest hour by allowing the Zionist to forsake the teachings of the Torah.

    1. Jon Ryan Feb 20, 2012

      Are you talking about “Palestinians’ land” before 1967, after 1967 or both?

      1. Joseph Tillotson Feb 20, 2012

        I am referring to the land occupied/settled/lived in by the Palestinians for the last 2000+ years. Referring to the year 1967 is important because it is the year that Israel launched a pre-emptive war against its neighboring countries contrary to the Israel hasbara that it was attacked by Egypt and its allies thereby increasing the size of the state of Israel considerably. The U.N. passed a resolution condemning this action and declared that territory acquired by war was illegal. Israel has ignored this Resolution and countless others. Especially noteworthy is their continuing defiance of Resolution 194 which refers to the right of return. The desire of Israel to have a state is admirable but if it continues on this path of might making right, and imposing apartheid on the Palestinians, it will self destruct. Might alone will not save it.

        1. Jon Ryan Feb 20, 2012

          There has been a continuous Jewish presence in the land for
          over 2,000 as well.

          Why is the Palestinian claim to the land more valid than

          Also, When was there ever a sovereign Palestinian nation?

          Nevertheless, I still believe in the 2 state solution. 


          As for the 1967 war, Didn’t Nasser threaten to drive the
          Jews into the sea?

          Also, I understand pre-emptive as a measure against
          something possible, anticipated, or feared.(dictionary.reference.com)

          As such, a potential Egyptian attack was not an


          What Torah teachings have the Zionists forsaken?


          From what I know, the Torah is very explicit in saying that
          God gave the land currently known as Israel and/or Palestine to the Jews?

          The Torah also is explicit about self-defense being a moral


          Since the Bible has been brought up in this discussion, it
          clearly shows a Jewish presence in the land going back over 2,000 years.

          The NIV version of Matthew 21:12 states”

          “Jesus entered the temple area and drove out all who
          were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers
          and the benches of those selling doves.” 
          Is there any doubt this refers to the Jewish Temple?  After all, Jesus himself was a Jew.


          How can a country with a Palestinian Israeli serving as a
          deputy speaker of the parliament be considered apartheid?

          How can a country where its Arab minority enjoy greater
          freedom, rights & opportunities than in any other country in the Middle
          East be considered apartheid?

          Is there discrimination against the Arab minority? Yes, but
          this is true about most countries and their minorities.

          Besides, there is discrimination against Palestinians in
          Arab countries as well. Lebanon & Kuwait come to mind, but there are others as well.

          UN resolution 194 is more complex than simply calling for the Refugees right of return.
          It states that “Refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbors should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date.”
          It is debatable if the refugees wish to live in peace.  The practicality is also debatable since in practice, allowing all the refugees to return would put an end to the Jewish state of Israel.


          How would you suggest Israel “change its policies and

          Also, Mr. Tillotson, and I am not being hostile or provocative, would I be wrong to assume that your bottom line is that you do not agree that Israel has a right to exist as a Jewish state under any circumstances?

        2. Djt1948 Feb 20, 2012

          I agree with you Joseph.  Israel is destined to fail.  It is a rogue nation and has been since 1967.  The world will eventually pressure the U.S. to end the Occupation.

          1. Jon Ryan Feb 20, 2012

            What was Israel before becoming a “rogue nation” in 1967? 
            There was no occupation, yet there was no peace either.

        3. Jon Ryan Feb 21, 2012

          Joseph, on what are you basing your claim that Palestinians occupied/settled/lived  in Palestine for the last 2,000 + years?
          I’ve never heard that before and am curious.

  19. Zooey Feb 20, 2012

    Jon Ryan denies the facts of UN Resolution 242.  I quote from the resolution itself:
    [The resolutiion] Affirms that the fulfillment of Charter principles requires the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East which should include the application of both the following principles:Withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict;

    1. Jon Ryan Feb 20, 2012

      Still, it explicitly says “withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict.”  It doesn’t say “all” territories, “the” territories or “all the” territories.

      Zooey quotes the resolution, but perhaps forgot to mention the second principle.

      “Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force”

      Once again, the Palestinians rejected this resolution just the same as they rejected the partition plan resolution in 1947.
      They finally accepted it in 1993 but seemingly ignored, or perhaps forgot the part about the “right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force”

      There is plenty of blame to go around and singling out Israel alone will not do anything to help the Palestinians.

      1. Zooey Feb 21, 2012

        JON RYAN
        The French version of the resolution makes it clear that the Israelis were to withdraw from THE territories occupied.  The French text says:  “des territoires.”  If the French text had said “de territoires” you would have a valid point.  You don’t.

        1. Jon Ryan Feb 21, 2012

          Yes, but the resolution was adopted in English, not French.

          1. Joseph Feb 21, 2012

            Ryan: you and Arafat seem to be the true believers and apologist for the Zionist state and it’s actions. It seems that no lawyerly argument or historical evidence could dissuade you from your firm, unshakeable beliefs. So, why is there a BDS Movement?why is Israel regularly denounced by the U. N. and ruled against by the International courts? Something must be amiss. Are you not willing to witness the destruction of the Palestinian civilization? The dispossession of millions of Palestinian families? The immoral and despicable treatment by the IDF in the occupied territories? The Israeli attack on the USS Liberty in 1967 which killed 40 Americans? I don’t believe that moral, Torah taught Jews would behave like this but apparently the Zionist do.

            I do not want harm to come to the Jewish people( my daughter is married to a wonderful man) but the morality inherent in all sentient beings is being violated by the pariah state of Israel and its survival depends on a radical change in policies and beliefs hopefully articulated by a new generation.

          2. Jon Ryan Feb 22, 2012

            Dispossesion of millions of Palestinian families?  Where did you pull that statistic out from?  Figures show that there were less than a million Arabs living in pre-Israel Palestine. The vast majority were not expelled but told to leave by their leaders until they could come back following the destruction of Israel.

            Interestingly enough, the same number of Jews were expelled from Arab countries at the time.

            You speak in such generalities without providing any examples at all about what you are talking about.

            The USS Liberty in 1967? 45 years ago?  Talk about scraping the bottom of the barrel!  Besides, a congressional investigation concluded that it was an accident.

            You seem to know nothing about the Torah, by the way.

            By advocating Israeli withdrawal from Palestinian territories, and you have yet to be clear about what that definition means to you, you are certainly wanting harm to come to the Jewish people.  Until there is a mutually agreed upon settlement which involves a Palestinian state living in peace alongside Israel, nothing will change on the ground.

            It’s nice that your daughter is married to a wonderful man who I can only assume is Jewish.
            Some of my best friends are Jewish too.

  20. Jon Ryan Feb 20, 2012

    UN Resolution 242, originally rejected by the PLO, does not call for Israeli withdrawal to the June 1967 borders.  This information is so readily available that it seems the author’s intent was to be intentionally misleading. 

    1. Djt1948 Feb 20, 2012

      Zionism is characterized by an absolute refusal to be reasonable.

      1. Arafat Feb 20, 2012

        Islamism is characterized by an absolute refusal to be reasonable.
        Israel gave back the entire Sinai  in exchange for peace with Egypt.  Israel has respected that peace.  Seems reasonable.
        Israel withdrew all Jewish settlers from Gaza.  In exchange the Muslims from Gaza sent 6,000 missiles into Israel.  Who is the reasonable one here?
        Muslims in Sudan have murdered, raped, starved and enslaved millions in Sudan.  Acts of a reasonable religion, eh?
        Islamists in Egypt have taken over power and are relentlessly murdering off the Coptic Christians – a people whose roots trace back to before the time the murderous prophet of Islam was even borne.  Another sign of how reasonable Muslims are.
        Islamists in Afghanistan murder women for anything and everything.  Another clue as to Islam’s reasonableness.
        Muslims in Iran hang homosexuals and then tell the world there are no homosexuals in their country.  Another clue suggesting how unreasonable the Muslims are.
        Muslims in southern Asia have relentlessly killed off almost all the Hindus in Pakistan and Bangladesh – Hindus who can trace their roots back thousands of years – and long before the murderous prophet’s birth.  Sound reasonable to you?
        I could go on and write about the wiped out Zoroastrians, Assyrians, Armenians, Chaldeans, Jews of the greater Middle East, Berbers of North Africa, Christians of the Caucuses, but I think I’ve already made my point about how unreasonable Muslims are.
        “Allahu Akbar!”  The Muslims shouted as they beheaded the Dagestanis one by one just as Mohammed and his men did as they wiped out the ancient Zoroastrians of the Arabian Peninsula.

        1. Achilles Feb 21, 2012

          You forgot that Muslims in Saudi Arabia kill anyone accused of Sorcery… fucking SORCERY!

      2. Anonymous Feb 24, 2012

        By someone who is racist, antisemitic and radical – I agree that, Zionism is meaningless.
        For those who do not know …
        Zion  this is the ancient name for Jerusalem and land of Israel.
        Zionism is  Jewish national movement whose goal was to return to their homeland in 1897. That what moderate Arabs told about the Zionism…”Who can challenge the rights of the Jews in Palestine? Good Lord, historically it is really your country.”

        -Yusuf Diya al-Khalidi, Mayor of Jerusalem, writing in 1899.

        “We Arabs, especially the educated among us, look with deepest sympathy
        on the Zionist movement. We will wish the Jews a hearty welcome home.”

        – Emir Faisal, King of Syria and Iraq, writing in 1919.

        and etc. etc.

        Do you want to know why there is violence? Read it!

        Now let move to the reality and ask how we can help to both sides to achieve PEACE!

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