Controversial speaker Dr. Ilan Pappé addresses Israeli-Palestinian conflict

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Dr. Ilan Pappe speaks out against Israeli policy at the Northridge Center in the USU on Monday. Photo credit: Jessica Jewell / Daily Sundial

Tensions ran high at the USU Monday as controversial historian, Dr. Ilan Pappé, addressed the audience. An Israeli Jew, Pappé takes a strong stance against policies concerning the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

His tour, “Revisiting 1967: The False Paradigm of Parity and Partition” has met substantial resistance across the CSU system, as numerous groups opposed his appearance. Zionist organizations launched a letter writing campaign to try and prevent his lectures across the CSU system.

“Your lack of understanding as a society, as a political body is a main reason for political unrest in Israel and Palestine,” Pappé said when he opened his speech.

Groans crept from some audience members.

According to Malek Al-Marayati, president of the Muslim Student Association and A.S. Senator, Interim President, Dr. Harry Hellenbrand sent out an announcement against the opposition of Pappé’s talk.

Hellenbrand demonstrated a “clear and unwavering support for academic freedom,” said David Klein, professor of mathematics.

Opponents of Pappé gathered outside of the building, passing out fliers drafted by the CSUN Students for Israel. The flier questioned his credibility.

The flier quoted Historian Yoav Gelber, and said Pappé “has totally abandoned the academic disguise…and has enlisted the service of Palestinian propaganda in Israel and abroad.”

“Any human being living in Israel has more rights than any other Arab country in the world,” said Adam Paul-Reuven, President of the CSUN Students for Israel.

A woman with a grey bob and a purple sweater spoke to Pappé as a fellow historian.

“He’s not a good historian, he distorts quotes and he has an agenda to destroy the Jewish state. He’s dangerous,” said Dr. Roberta Seid, historian and adjunct UC Irvine professor.

As soon as Pappé began to address her concerns she stormed away from the front of the room.

Pappé’s talk centered around the reevaluation of the mainstream paradigm of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict and the “peace process” in the region. He said Palestinians are an underrepresented group that aren’t seen as a competent participant in a conflict that they are at the very heart of.

“The peace process becomes an educating process for the ‘less developed’ Palestinian people,” Pappé said.

Reseda resident, Duane Buckley, 69, stood outside wearing a leather jacket adorned in red, white and blue.

“He hates everybody, what more do you want?” Buckley said about Pappé.

Pappé iterated three main assertions that contribute to his proposed false paradigm. The collective false assumptions of the 1967 war conflict, the Palestinian population residing solely in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, and if Palestinian representatives disagree to a proposed resolution, the Israelis are justified in offering them less next time they come to the table.

A long line formed quickly after Pappé finished delivering his speech with supporters and opponents alike.

Pappé was called a “self-hating Jew” by a man identifying himself as an Iranian Jew during the Q&A segment.

“This is really an industry of hot air, it has nothing to do with what people are experiencing on the ground,” Pappé said.


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  • http://propagandalalaland.blogspot.com/ Julia

    Looks like StandWithUS and CAMERA have paid more hasbara trolls to flood this article’s comments. Sheesh.

  • S. Crisp

    People’s minds are really poisoned to believe that one Jewish nation is too many and 21 Arab Muslim states is not enough.

  • Hugo

    Israel should not exist because its inhabitants are mainly Ashkenaze Jews who are not semitic, they are simply Europeans and if they insist on living in a Jewish state they can go to BIROBIDZHAN the other exclusive Jewish region.

    • Anonymous

       Hugo you hate Jewish people and that’s it!
       Ashkenazim Jews are Semitic.

       1. And if I am following your theory, so Palestinian are not (and they are really not) the nation. Listen to their representative in Israeli Parliament, Azmi Bshara.
       http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qp1OS-20Bzc

      2.  Zionist people started to come to the land of Israel since 1882 ,but there  were a group of Jewish people who lived in this land all world history and never left.

      3.Ottoman empire sold to Jewish the permissions to come and to live to the land of Israel.

      4. Great Britain, that controlled this land from the end of WW1 to 1948 recognize the right of the Jewish people to come back.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration_of_1917

      5. UN recognized the right of Jewish people to the land in 1947.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine#The_vote

      6. There were not EVER, but EVER Palestinian/ Arab/ Muslin Independence and sovereign state  in what we called today Israel, Gaza and West Bank.

      7. People in Russian did a lot of pogroms many years, because they did not want Jewish people to live on their land.

      8. Europe showed during the Holocaust, that they do not want Jewish people to live there.

      9. Arabs countries initiated war against Israel, because they did not agree with the decision of UN to establish Jewish state in 1948.

      10. Almost all Arabs country  kicked out more than  800.000 Jewish people from their countries from 1948 until 1965. They confiscated their property and money.

      11. But Israel won and it is situated like independence country 64 years.

      12. Palestinian people lived in Gaza in 1948-1967 under Egypt control. And they never asked for their own country.

      13. Palestinian people lived in West Bank from in 1948-1967 under the Jordan control. And they never asked for their own country.

      14. PLO was established in 1964! Pay attention, because only for you I will repeat it again..1964. Because they wanted to destroy Jewish state, without any connection to their own independence state.

      15. Only after 1987 they started to ask from their own country and do you know why? Because Egypt did not want them. Egypt signed peace agreement with Israel in 1979, but rejected to take Gaza back. Jordan could take back West bank, but it rejected also!

      16. The truth about Peace process – you can see. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAuBc_cbXo0

      So look on this map and ask you again…
      http://www.middleeastfacts.com/images/thearabworld.gif

      If  there were 56 Islamic counties in the world, 49 Catholic, 20 Protestant, 12 Eastern Orthodox, 4 Hindu.
       Does only One Jewish State has right to exist like a Jewish state in the world?

      If you still say – no… so I’ve already told you Hugo – you have Jewish people and you are anti Semitic.
       

  • Rick

    CSU Presidents issued a great letter supporting the principle of academic freedom, in response to the campaign to prevent Pappe speaking at CSUN and other campuses. This letter should be posted at the paper. The letter is at the bottom of the following report:
    http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/nora/zionist-group-fails-disrupt-ilan-pappes-tour-california-state-universities

  • guest

    I think this website will explain everything

  • truth seeker
  • Mahonki66

    The Liar as Hero!
    If you feel that you real student and you part of real academy, so you have to read the facts and to “buy” everything that people say you! Do not trast me also- check it!
    http://spme.net/cgi-bin/articles.cgi?ID=7814
     

    • Joseph

      For the true Zionist who have posted, I do no believe that there is any fact or opinion that would alter your view that your cause is just and that you are entitled to all of Eretz Israel because God gave the land to the Jews which naturally confers ownership.for a moment, ponder the present situation of the indigenous people. They live in Gaza under dire conditions. Gaza is under rigid occupation. They lack the means to lead normal lives. Operation Cast Lead the assualt on Gaza in 2009 that left 1500 Palestinians dead. Even if You believe that your cause is right, ask yourself if you can support a nation like Israel that can perpetuate this kind of persecution. Israel’s immorality makes a mockery of Judaism. Religions should provide a moral code for its adherents to guide them. It seems that Judaism then condones the violence and duplicity now being perpetuated by Israel with the help of my country for which I have regret

      • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/RUYND7UCBYSVQI5NNCOB2QGFUA David

        Very well put, Joseph. It is most encouraging to know the increasing awareness of the horrible disservice that Zionism is doing to and in the name of Judaism. At this moment in history, Zionism and it imperialist sponsors are the real enemy of the Jews (to quote the title of a book by Alan Hart, ZIONISM, THE REAL ENEMY OF THE JEWS at http://www.zionismbook.com/). The growing legion of Israeli and other Jewish scholars worldwide, at times in direct collaboration with Palestinians, will help significant to turn the tide. Ilan Pappé points out the the liberal Zionist in Israel has now begun in earnest to rethink the contradiction, the political stance that is an oxymoron, the “liberal Zionist” like the impossibility of a pacifist warmonger.

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/RUYND7UCBYSVQI5NNCOB2QGFUA David

    It was encouraging to hear the optimism of Ilan Pappé and
    his hope for Palestinians and Jews alike in the place now called Israel. 
    Ilan used his gentle yet firm and confident eloquence of the issues of Israel,
    his vision for the future of peace and justice that can only come via the one
    secular and truly democratic state—to  dispel the distortions of the long parade of
    Zionist denial of the hard facts of history and current events. Ilan’s empathy
    for his fellow Jews is palpable, as we heard him express his deep concern for
    his children who still live in the religious racist state of Israel while he
    lives in self-imposed exile in the UK as his work was stifled in Israel.

  • CSUNStudent

    Memo to the Sundial:  I don’t care about a state (starts with the letter “P” and ends with the letter “e”) that is not an ally to our country and wishes to kill Americans.  I side with countries which are our allies (England, Israel, Germany, South Africa, Philippines, etc.)

    Keep up the great work, Students for Israel!

    Signed,
    not Jewish or Muslim

    • http://propagandalalaland.blogspot.com/ Julia

      I hate to sound elitist, but you should probably take a class on ethics. Just because a particular state happens to be an ally of the US does not mean support for its actions is ethical.

      • CSUNStudent

        I already have taken ethics course.  I cannot support a state (or the countries that support this state) that cheers what happened on September 11 and would like to see that happen again.

        • Anonymous

          Then you shouldn’t accept the State of Israel which cheers when Palestinians are killed or in fact when anyone is killed that doesn’t agree with Israel’s racist policies. Go look up the video where Israel’s cheered in the streets when they killed 9 ppl on the Mavi Marmara. Or when they killed Gazans. The Israelis are just as hateful, so they get the same standards.

          • Mahonki66

            Do not mix everything together! If you say a lot of time many bad words against Israel it is does not mean that you are right! I am Israeli and I can say that when terrorist activist killed…. we are not celebrate it! At worst we are hiding at home! Dozens of thousands Isarelis attacked almost every day by rockets from GAZA! Thouthands of Jewish children have 15 seconds to run to the shelter! There were more than 12.000 of rockets sent to Israeli  secular people since 2000 and only by Hamas! So ask yourself trully why?

            Israelis are hateful?! Israeli are only one who really looking for the PEACE so many years!

            So,
            do Jewish and Palestinian people suffer differently? Do they have a different
            color of the blood? Do the people are not looking for peace and security? Do we
            have different dreams and cares?

            To
            be against Israel will not resolve:


            the terroristic attacks on Israeli civil citizens.


            the cynic uses of Hamas of children and women, like a human shields. YES YES YES!!!You are human righths activist, do Google about it


            the using of Palestinian people for the industry of terror, like single woman
            who was raped in 2002 and then was sent to be suicide bomber instead of honor
            Killing. Do you know that some Palestinian women came to attacked Israeli soldiers with the kitchen knife …. do you know why? BECAUSE THEY ARE SYSTEMATICLY RAPED BY HAMAS AND THEY PREFER TO FO TO THE ISRAELI GAIL AND NOT TO STAY IN GAZA, AT THEIR HOMES! I AM A WOMAN ALSO – I WANT TO CRY WHEN I HEAR IT!


            the using of Palestinian children to transfer bombs.

            – the education for peace of Palestinian people and
            not for hate. check the website of Palestinian media watch! All Israeli mothers used to say  :'” I went to the army and I hope that when my children will be 18 it will be peace and  they will not have to do it also!” What Radical Palestinian government is teaching their children? To be suisice bomber!

            http://www.palwatch.org/


            the using International community aid to terror goals instead to the
            infrastructure for Palestinian people.


            the Palestinian refugees , who still be a hostages of Radical Countries that
            use UN to promote hate against Jews until today instead to look for real solution.

            Because
            of the same Radical leaders were more interested to keep the Palestinian Arabs
            without human conditions until today in Arab countries (do google about
            Palestinian in Lebanon or Syria) instead to look for the peace and
            co-existence. To really understand how Radical people were not interested to
            help Palestinian People, they demanded from UN to establish special Palestinian
            Refugees organization. Did you know that there is UNHCR (United Nation High
            Commissioner for Refugees) that take care about all refugees in the world and
            help them to integrate or resettle in the new country, but there is another
            organization, UNRWA (United Nation Relief 
            and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees) that take care only about
            Palestinian Refugees and does not help them to integrate, but “pending a solution to their plight.”  And if you will check you will very surprised about
            the special definition only for Palestinian Refugees, like “Palestine refugees are people whose normal place of residence was
            Palestine between June 1946 and May 1948″.

            Who
            were interested to create organization that instead the resolve the Refugees
            problem – maintain it? How Palestinian person feels today in Lebanon for
            instance, that he is the 3rd generation of refugees, when Lebanon
            doesn’t give him citizenship, avoid from him basic rights for health care, employment in most occupations and etc? 

             The answer again is Radical Leaders who did
            not and some of them even today do not care about their own People, and prefer
            Palestinian live like this, but still keep “unresolved problem”, like
            weapon against Jewish state.


            the poor conditions of the Palestinians in Arabs countries.

            – the
            check points, that will stay at the same place to wait for the real peace!


            the suffer of the Arab and Jewish mothers, who lost their children in the
            war.  

            So
            there are proofs that to be a real “Pro Palestinian” and “Pro
            Peace” it is mean to be against radicalism and terror!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Robert-Annable/1531208911 Robert Annable

    Pappe wrote the great book, “The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestinian” which does not fit into the Zionist re-write of history which is that 800,000 Palestiians left Palestinians willing left on their own after their leaders told them to. Sure! They re-write leaves out the massacres of whole villages in a concerted plan of ethnic cleansing called “Plan Dalet”. This plan took place in 1948, not many years after the end of the Holocaust. Pappe was denounced as a traitor and received constant death threats for writing the truth as any respectable historian should.

    • TheAntiV

      On the intent of Plan Dalet Morris writes:
      The essence of the plan was the clearing of hostile and potentially hostile forces out of the interior of the territory of the prospective Jewish State, establishing territorial continuity between the major concentrations of Jewish population and securing the future State’s borders before, and in anticipation of, the invasion [by Arab states]. The Haganah regarded almost all the villages as actively or potentially hostile.
      The plan was neither understood nor used by the senior field officers as a blanket instruction for the expulsion of ‘the Arabs’. But, in providing for the expulsion or destruction of villages that had resisted or might threaten the Yishuv, it constituted a strategic-doctrinal and carte blanche for expulsions by front, brigade, district and battalion commanders (who in each case argued military necessity) and it gave commanders, post facto, formal, persuasive cover for their actions. However, during April–June, relatively few commanders faced the moral dilemma of having to carry out the expulsion clauses. Townspeople and villagers usually left their homes before or during battle, and Haganah rarely had to decide about, or issue, expulsion orders…”

      And I’m pretty sure Palestinians have been trying to recreate there own history as well if one considers those claims they make about being the descendents of the ancient Canaanites and Philistines.

      • Mahonki66

         LISTEN TO THE ARAB ISRAELI (THAT CONSIDER HIMSELF LIKE AN PALESTINIAN) FORMER ISRAELI POLITICS, WHO REPRESENTED MUSLIN PEOPLE IN ISRAELI PARLIAMENT:

    • Mahonki66

       BENNY MORRIS,HE IS “A NEW HISTORIAN” ALSO  WROTE A GREAT RESPONSE TO THE LIES OF PAPPE, CHECK IT
      LIAR LIKE A HERO:
      http://spme.net/cgi-bin/articles.cgi?ID=7814

  • http://propagandalalaland.blogspot.com/ Julia

    CSUN Students for Israel tried discrediting and blocking Norman Finkelstein from speaking at CSUN a few years ago as well. I take it they don’t like facts which conflict with their insanely nationalistic and state-worshipping views.

    • Logan

      Is it “insanely nationalistic” to desire FACT from a historian rather than subjective views?  Even Pappe’s colleagues, who are very critical of Israel, oppose him and cite him as a faulty scholar. 
      http://spme.net/cgi-bin/articles.cgi?ID=7814

      It is one thing to criticize Israel, as you would any other country, but it is another to use a double standard and isolate it.  Anti-Israel is Anti-Jewish because Israel is The Jewish State, the only in this world.  The Israeli-Palestinian Conflict is one that has so many complicated facets that it is difficult to comprehend within a lifetime alone.  There is a reason this has been an issue for decades.

      Israel wants peace; talk to any Israeli and 9/10 times they will tell you the same thing.  Both sides want peace and to do that they  must work together.  The Palestinians need to detach themselves from terror groups, i.e. Hamas, and recognize Israel as the Jewish State.  Doing so will get the ball rolling towards reaching a two-state, two people solution.

      “If the Israeli Defense Force were to stop operating for a day then Israel would be wiped out in a day.  If the army of Iran were to do the same, Israel would do nothing.”

      • http://propagandalalaland.blogspot.com/ Julia

        Yeah sure, everyone wants peace. War is very expensive and no state wants a prolonged conflict.

        Regardless as to which side is “right” in this conflict, the mere fact that you care about the image of a state (Israel) shows your nationalism.

        • TheAntiV

          I’m pretty sure many individuals on the other side of the conflict could also be considered guilty of nationalism.

        • Logan

          Is it wrong for me to love the one country in the Middle East with most equal rights? Homesexuals can openly serve in the Israeli Defense Forces (and they do), Israeli Arabs have the exact same rights as Jewish or Christian Israelis, democracy and freedom of speech is non-negotiable fact, and the list goes on.

          I merely seek to dispel untruths about Israel and for my peers to understand what is going on.  I want peace, I want to breathe easy one day and not worry if my friends in Ashkelon, Be’er Sheva, or Sderot survived the missile attacks that have always plagued Israel.  I want to see the day where Palestinians and Israelis can work together to finally better that whole region of the world. 

          Think of the human rights in Iran, Saudi Arabia, Syria, etc.  A homosexual gets lynched in Iran, a woman can’t drive in Saudi Arabia, true ethnic cleansing is going on in Africa as I type and…silence.  

          I support a humanistic country that seeks peace and Justice, not ideological groups that seek its destruction, i.e. Hamas, Hezbollah, or The Muslim Brotherhood.

          My qualm is with untruth because it clouds judgement and hinders peace.

          • Anonymous

            Palestinians do not have equal rights in Israel and you know it. It suffices to say that there hasn’t been a single Arab village established in Israel since 1948. Israel wants to keep a Jewish-majority state and they oppress Palestinians at every turn to keep it that way, whether it be through discriminatory marriage laws, discriminatory land practices, discriminating against Palestinians in universities, jobs and government. Being a Palestinian in Israel is like being black in the US in the 1960s, where you have rights in theory but the reality is not at all like that. I should know, I’m an Arab-Israeli. As do Jews who are denied an opinion if they disagree with Israel’s racist policies.

            The truth is that Israel is a racist state and everything they have been doing, from occupation to settlements and discriminatory laws and practices is to keep the state Jewish-majority. You can’t claim equal rights when a Jew can immigrate from all over the world to Israel but my relatives in Israel can’t come back to their homes simply because they are Palestinians. It’s clear racism and you can’t deny it. You can’t have a state that demands a majority of people of only one religion and not have it be racist. Israel is not a democracy, it’s just a democratic theocracy stuck in ideas from the middle ages.

          • Logan

            As an Arab-Israeli you know then that Gaza is governed by Hamas, a terrorist organization, and The West Bank by the PLA.  The Palestinians that DID stay within Israel after 1948 received full citizenship and to this day receive full rights and serve in political, public, etc. positions in Israel.

            You claim that “being a Palestinian in Israel is like being a black in the US in the 1960s…”  How is that possible if the Palestinians are not governed by Israel?  Israel went so far as to uproot Jewish families in Gaza as a step towards peace.  What happened?  A terrorist organization, Hamas, took control and used it as a strategic point to attack Israel.  Israel has to negotiate with Hamas? No.

            In order to move forward you need to recognize that these are two different people seeking a two-state, two-people solution.  You can not isolate Israel and claim that Israel is racist to the Palestinians when the Palestinians run themselves.  Do you fail to remember of the horrible conditions of the Palestinian refugees in refugee camps in Syria, Lebanon, or Jordan?  

            There can not be a double-standard, my friend.  In order for their to be peace both parties need to work together.  On the Palestinian side, Israel must be recognized as the Jewish State and the Palestinians must detach themselves from terrorist organizations.  

          • Anonymous

            Where are you? I was specifically talking about discrimination of Palestinians in ISRAEL being discriminated against by ISRAEL. Yes, the Plaestinians in Israel are governed by Israel, are you lost in the conversation? Who said anything about Hamas or the WB? What does what’s happening in Gaza and the WB have to do with Arab-Israelis.

            As an Arab-Israeli, I am completely discriminated against and you can’t tell me otherwise. I couldn’t even get an Israeli passport without having to fight and apply for it 3x, despite the fact that I was born in Israel as was my whole family. The excuse I was given was “you don’t exist in the system”, despite the fact that everytime I entered and left the country, I was promptly identified by the same “system”. I finally did find a kind Israeli official who indeed confirmed that all my records exist and she processed my passport in a day.

            This is exactly the type of discrimintion that is happening in Israel. I know so many Arab-Israelis that are denied building permits in an effort to suffocate the growth of their villages and get them to leave, so many that are denied entry into universities and our villages don’t receive the same funding in education or even public spending for our villages that Jewish villages receive. It’s real, and just because you don’t know about it, doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. Israel is a racist state that absolutely discriminates against Palestinians. Just because there are a handful in government, doesn’t mean that they get equal rights. You just don’t know because you don’t live it.

          • MAHONKI66

             You Arab Israeli and you had some issues with the bureaucracy? And what? Is it mean that this is because you are Arab???? It happens in all over the world!

            So please give me tell what I think about it:
            – Israel invented the term – “aflaya metakenet” or affirmative action literally! that  means that all more poor citizens will get advantage to have access  to – universities (even if you have a bad grades – you get in anyway! Great, example of it Medical faculty! who do study there? Who are doctors in Israeli hospitals? Isareli Arabs and Jewish  Newcomers from Former Soviet Union and America!).

            – to grants for universities (I am a Jewish Israeli and I never got those grants, because every time explained me that there were a lot of applications of Arab Isarelis who needs it more then me. And I asked myself- do Jewish people cannot be poor in Israel? Maybe do we need some gevernment aid also?

            – to get government jobs!!!!! Many of the tenders are only for religious minorities!

            And now I have to add another important things that you DO NOT GIVE YOUR COUNTRY:
            – you don’t serve in the Army? Why? When Hamas, Hizballa, Irak, Syria or another one attacked Israel – did they kill only Jews? No! They kill Arabs also, so you don’t want to defence your people?
            – You do not feel loyalty to Israel- (Interesting, but in America if you are not loyal to the country – you can not get the citizenship, but in “racist” Israeli country – you can! ) do not serve ! Many Isarelis do not serve because of a lot of reasons also, so do what Jewish people do-  DO NATIONAL SERVICE INSIDE YOU MUSLIM COMMUNITY!!!! You have so many problems: rapes, murders, honor killings, status of women and etc and etc!
            Why Jews even if they do not serve- they choose to help their community? You do not care about your community?

            – you have ALL RIGHTS that any another Jews have and do not lie- that you do not have! You get the same health care almost for free, you get the social security! You choose to have a lot of women or children and then to get as more as it possible money from “Racist State!”. Try to do it in any another country! Especially in Arab one!

            Great example of it –  this is that according to your tradition you can have 4 women, so what many of you does, because in the democratic country, like Israel you cannot merried to 4 women, so you merried them in your community and then 3 from 4 by the official Israeli law became – single mothers! and they get a LOT of TAX money from the country!

            – you speak about the infrastructure in your villages… I agree – YOU HAVE TO TAKE CARE ABOUT HOW PLACE THAT YOU LIVE IN LOOKS! Accordind to the Isareli law since 2000 – the government gives no more then third to the budget of the city/ village/ town, so what do Jewish municipality – they charge for last 10 years a huge PROPERTY TAX, that can be sometimes 30% or 40% in addition of your rent.
             SO BE HONEST AND SAY – WE  ISRAELI ARABS IN ARABS VILLAGES DO NOT PAY IT AT ALL AND IN ANY VERY FEW CASES WE PAY A LITTLE BIT – AND THIS IS BECAUSE WE THINK THAT JEWISH STATE WAS NOT NICE TO US ENOUGHT 64 YEARS AGO, WHEN WE JOINED ARABS COUNTRY AND INITIATED WAR AGAINST ISRAEL AND WE REALLY HOPED THAT JEWS WILL BE KILLED!

            You get an advantage to get a lot services and grants that will help your community to grow up and to develop itself!
            You have ALL rigths, like me  but you do not have ALL duties! I have to serve in the army or to do NATIONAL SERVICE, i have to pay property taxex and you – do not and etc!

            So , do not be two faced and be honest at least with youself!

            Do not put all you community’s problems on Israel!
            BE ACTIVE AND SOLVE THEM!
            TAKE EXAMPLE FROM ACTIVE AND LOYAL ARAB ISRAELIS – WHO DO CHOOSE TO SERVE IN THE ARMY (AND THIS IS NOT ONLY CHRISTIAN ARABS, DRUZE AND BEDOUINS, BUT ALSO MUSLIM!), DECIDE TO EXPOSE CORRUPTION IN YOUR MUNICIPALITIES, STOP THE ABUSES OF YOUR WOMEN (RAPES AND HONOR KILLING) AND LOOK WHAT YOU CAN DO TO IMPROVE FOR BETTER LIFE!

            LOOK YOUR BROTHERS!
            I AM PROUD OF ISRAEL TO BE SO DEMOCRATIC COUNTRIES AND I AM ROUD AND HAPPY TO SHARE THIS COUNTRY WITH LOYAL AND ACTIVE ARABS, LIKE A LOT OF MY GREATES FRIEND, WHO REALLY CARE AND LOOK FOR BETTER LIFE FOR ALL OF US!

          • Proud CSI/CSUN Alum

            Eugenie,

            I think it is a travesty that you had these bureaucratic problems in Israel. They should have treated you with more respect, truthfully. In all honesty, though, you of all people (i.e. Israeli) should know how difficult it is to get ANYTHING done when it comes to Israeli bureaucracy. You aren’t alone…All people (Israelis/Americans/etc. Jew/Christian/Muslim/etc.) are always frustrated at the end of a government office visit.

            In terms of discrimination you are probably right. You probably are discriminated against more than the average Israeli, but then again, everyone is discriminated against no matter where you go. I am discriminated against because I am a Jew. You can’t compare Arabs in Israel to Black in America during the 1960s. That is simply unfair. Blacks sat at the back of the bus and Arabs don’t (except for women in Meah Shearim). Arabs don’t have their own water fountains. Arabs and Israelis go to University together. The list can go on and on…

            One thing I was surprised about is that I have never heard an Arab respond to freedoms in their home countries. Logan touched upon it but I never saw your response. Gays are lynched, women are killed/raped when shaming their family or leaving their husbands, and Jews are not allowed to many Arab countries. I would love to visit Saudi Arabia or Qatar but I’m not allowed.

            I’m not here to specifically defend Israel (because the rest of the people are doing a good job) but I am here to challenge the rights that people have in Arab countries. My Arab friends who live in Arab countries seem to love going back home but they live in America for a reason. We have rights here. Though many people might not agree with them (i.e. Homosexuality, Unarranged marriages, etc.) we still cherish that freedom.

            Look at the Arab spring. Think about it. Why are people so upset? Why are they fighting so proudly for their lives. It is for freedom. Israel, regardless of your specific examples, is a Democratic state in every sense for Arabs or Israelis. People might be discriminatory but people’s personal feelings and actions don’t reflect the overall picture of what Israel stands for. I challenge you to really think about how Israel has been handling the situation considering the state that they’re in (i.e. surrounded by opposing nations and other contributing factors to the need of extreme security measures).

            Try to be a bit open minded and objective. We try to do it all the time. We (me personally involved) had to uproot Gush Katif and relocate everyone…and for what? What did we accomplish. We did our part. The ball is now in your court…

          • Mahonki66

             Only to remind you Arab Israeli about your right and problems!
            http://www.nrg.co.il/online/1/ART1/571/620.html

      • Anonymous

        Where’s your reasoning for if the IDF were to stop operating for a day than Israel would be wiped out in a day? How ludicrous is that? Are you advocating then that occupation as it is now is necessary? The autrocious crimes that Israel commits are necessary? You’re completely dillusional. Israel has the 4th most powerful military in the world and no one is asking them to stop ligitimately defend their country. The whole world is advocating a two-state solution in which Israel retreats to the 1967 border and the fact that Israel refuses to do this is exactly what is stopping peace.

        • Logan

           My reasoning is Iran’s leaders blatantly calling for the destruction of Israel.  Supporting this is Lebanon’s Hezbollah, Hamas, and Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood.  I paraphrased a professor from a class to illustrate Israel’s position.  Here’s a quick resource:

          AND

          You are wrong when you say that “no one is asking them to stop [legitimately] defend their country.”  One only need to listen to the leaders of some Arab countries and see why Israel is not willing to return to the exact 1967 borders.  It is a security issue and the only reason Israel attained that area was because it was a defensive war, as multiple countries attacked Israel with the purpose of destroying it…not the other way around.  Israel is suppose to give up it’s security?  It’s not as if Israel has attempted to negotiate for peace; it’s in Israel’s nature to desire peace.

          • Anonymous

            You are not capable of basic logic. What does Iran have to do with the Palestinians? So what if Iran calls for the destruction of Israel, that’s an Iran-Israel issue, not a Israel-Palestine issue.

            Second, you can’t claim to suppot peace but then say that Palestine can’t exist for “security reasons”. Either you believe in a Palestinian state or not, and don’t even try to tell me that Palestine can exist in an even smaller territory. They deserve and in fact have a right to 1967 borders according to International Law and the vast majority of public opinion. Every single year, almost the entire world, votes yes to the two-state solution on the 1967 border as the just solution to the conflict, including every single Arab state and indeed Iran. Your claims are completely empty.

            The occupation and the settlements are illegal and peace will not happen on just terms unless Israel retreats to the 1967 borders. That’s it, there are no if ands or buts about it.

          • Logan

            What does Iran have to do with it? The same as any other country in that region does.  Iran is connected to the Palestinians by funding terrorist acts and supplying with Hamas.  What about the Palestinian refugees in Arab countries?

            This video is a simple answer as to 1 reason WHY Iran and other countries are a part of the problem.  If you try to isolate the Palestinians in the context of this issue then there must NOT be a double standard when concerning Israel.

            I never said a Palestinian nation could not exist.  I stated that it cannot exist to the “exact” 1967 borders.  If Israel were to return to the exact 1967 borders then it would give up the Golan Heights and it would narrow down to a 9-mile strip of land at its narrowest.  The Golan Heights and the Jordan Mountains are CRUCIAL to Israel’s defense from surrounding countries.  What Israel has offered the Palestinians is reasonable and takes in to consideration the necessities of the Palestinians.

            So why has no peace been reached?  It is the fault of both parties, as I recognize that Israel is not perfect. The Palestinian leaders fail to recognize Israel as an official state, the denial of which is stated in its charter.  

            How do you expect Israel to negotiate with leaders who don’t recognize her as a Jewish state, work directly with terrorists, and demand something that would surely guarantee Israel’s destruction?

          • Anonymous

            So the US is funding Israel, should the Palestinians declare war on the US? They are after all, part of the problem as the Palestinians see it. Saudia Arabia is funding the rebels in Syria, should Syria declare war on Saudi Arabia or deal with the rebels directly? Europe funded the rebels in Libya, should Libya attack a England or France? There is no direct connection, the logic doesn’t fly.

            Sure, Iran is part of the problem, but Iran is not an excuse to oppress Palestinians. Even the ones that are not fighting Israel are being oppressed – a fisherman can’t go 3 miles into the sea off the Gaza coast without being shot at. Palestinians in the OT can’t move from one Palestinian village in the OT to another Palestinian village in the OT without passing numerous checkpoints. That’s not security, it’s oppression and it’s illegal. There is absolutely no excuse for this and you can’t convince me otherwise based on “security”. If any other state did this it would be inexusable.

            Also, the peace agreements that have been offered have been far from fair. It’s not even a question of borders, Israel wants almost all the settlements, they want Palestine’s water resources and they want to control Palestine’s airspace and freedom of movement of it’s people. They even want the road between Gaza and the OT to be under Israel’s sovereignty. How is that fair at all? How is that offering a state? That has been the parameters of every “peace” proposal that Israel put forth, except for the Clinton parameters which the Palestinians agreed to and Israel pulled out at the last minute because of domestic elections. They won’t go back to the Clinton parameters now, they want even more. How much do the Palestinians have to give up you think? They have to agree to having completely separate buntustans as their “state”? No.

            The only fair solution is 1967 borders and security matters can be worked out easily with agreement from both sides. This idea that the Palestinians have to give up even more land, their right of return, water, freedom of airspace and movement between the areas of their state when they have already lost and given up so much is ridiculous. The security argument doesn’t fly because if the Palestinians aren’t attacking you, then you don’t need security. and the borders are defensible no matter what they are.

            Don’t believe Danny Ayalon who is an absolute nutcase and his videos are propaganda filled with factual holes paid for by “Stand with Us” and the Israeli government. Danny Ayalon is not a fair negotiator for peace, I’ve watched his videos and he’s a pure Zionist who doesn’t want a Palestinian state.

    • Anonymous

       Read it and maybe it will help you to understand something…and maybe not
      http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/63662/finkelstein-disowns-silly-israel-boycott