From the calm and measured intelligent discourse of cable news to the hard hitting in-depth stories of the Associated Press, the debate is raging. Should we send more troops to Afghanistan?
The debate is usually very narrowly defined: “Are there enough troops in Afghanistan to win?” or “If we send more troops is winning possible?” Assuming that the war is “winnable,” does that make it right to wage it?
Let’s put the shoe on the other foot for a moment. If Afghanistan invaded the U.S., and Afghan TV debated about whether the war against the American terrorists was winnable, how would we feel about it?
If Pashtun and Tajik pundits callously debated how many more troops it would take to pacify Washington, D.C., would Americans just accept occupation and greet the invaders as liberators? Or would we fight to defend our homeland? The Afghan people are no different than us. No one likes being occupied.
Whether most Afghans agree with the Taliban’s ultra-strict version of Islam or not is irrelevant. When your country is under attack, you join up with whoever can expel the occupiers. Find this hard to believe? Don’t forget how we gave Bush a blank check to do whatever he wanted when our country was under attack.
The common justification for the occupation of Afghanistan has been the Sept. 11 attacks. We had a responsibility to bring the hijackers and those that supported them to justice, to bring peace to the families of the victims. We haven’t caught bin Laden in eight years. All we’ve done is kill more innocent people.
Do Americans even know who we are fighting in Afghanistan? When the Russians invaded Afghanistan in 1979, the U.S. sent hundreds of millions of dollars to train and equip the most radical jihadists it could find. We funded these radicals through Pakistan’s ISI, and one of our star subjects was Osama bin Laden. All of these fundamentalists, who we armed and trained 30 years ago are now our “enemies.”
Ronald Reagan called them “the freedom fighters of Afghanistan.” Now, they are “terrorists.” This is the monster we’ve created with our arrogance and ignorance. Every time the U.S. sticks its nose where it doesn’t belong, it makes the situation worse.
Now we’re arming and training warlords, drug lords, and criminals to fight the fundamentalists. But who are we going to pay to fight the warlords 20 to 30 years from now? When does the cycle of violence end? Do we ever learn our lesson?
The central government of Hamid Karzai, who just stole an election, only controls 20 percent of the country. So, if this is the status after eight years, the only thing more troops will do is lead to more deaths of US soldiers and Afghan civilians. This of course leads to more recruits for the Taliban, and the U.S. has to send more troops. This bloodshed can go on forever if we don’t put a stop to it right now.
Russia invaded Afghanistan in 1979, and the mujahideen bled their empire dry. President Carter’s National Security Adviser, Zbigniew Brzezinski, came up with the idea of funding Afghan rebels to draw the Soviets in to defend their proxy government.
Brzezinski describes the game, “We didn’t push the Russians to intervene, but we knowingly increased the probability that they would … That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Soviets into the Afghan trap…” Russia spent 10 years there, and it bled their empire dry.
Now it appears that bin Laden is laying the trap for us, and we fell for it: hook, line, and sinker. Will we be the next empire to die in Afghanistan?
As Jeremy Scahill, author of “Blackwater” and an expert on military affairs, said, “The United States occupation is the single greatest recruitment tool for the insurgency in Afghanistan, including the Taliban.” Does bombing Afghan wedding parties, killing dozens of civilians instantly and suddenly make Afghans want to sing the Star Spangled Banner? Of course not. It justifiably makes them want to kill us.
The truth is this: The fewer troops we have there, the less power and appeal the Taliban will have. Let’s get the hell out of the Land of the Pashtuns as soon as possible, which would give the Afghan people a real chance to sort out their own affairs, and find their own democratic voice.
Sir you are possibly one of the most uninformed people when it comes to Afghanistan. There is a big difference between what the US is doing in Afghanistan now and what the USSR did in the 1980s.
Also the United States has done more then just “kill more innocent people.” We have disrupted an entire terrorist network and killed several of Bin Laden’s key leaders.
also the Daily Sundial fails again in editing as your web site states that William Herbe wrote this piece while your newspaper says the Joseph Glatzer wrote it.
What do you think will happen if we leave? This “senior reporter” forgot to mention how many innocent people will be killed when the Taliban come back. You probably missed the report about the Taliban throwing acid in a little girls face for going to school. Just like Vietnam, when we left thousands of civilians were slaughtered by the Vietcong. The same thing will happen in Afg. Their deaths will be on your conscience. The reason this war is “unwinnable” is because of people like you. People like you supported the war right after 9/11. Now you want to quit on the people who are doing the tuff lifting. You are a quitter, the weak of society; you probably cried on 9/11 and asked where were our troops. While you were crying people like me stood up and took an oath to defend this country.
For some reason (naive leftist idology?) many think that there’s no price to be paid for not taking action, or in this case, just getting up an leaving. Many on the left agreed that this was the “right war” as opposed to the “wrong” one in Iraq. Intelligent people can differ on the latter.
A quick reminder: Afganistan is where the plot for 9/11 was crafted. The Taliban allowed Al-Qaeda to use the country as a haven and to train for its attacks on the West. The country is far from being under control and it obviously needs our help. This is in the best interest of the U.S. and we’d damn well better stick it out and do what’s necessary to make certain that Al-Qaeda cannot again use it as a base.
The best thing that can happen to Afganistan and the U.S. is that it become a democracy. We have a duty not to be isolationist and allow the rest of the world to go to Hell. Don’t count on the United Nations’ weenies to get the job done.
It’s easy for Mr. Glatzer to be a peacenik from the comfort of his home in this hard-won democracy. Lots of people died, and still do, for what we have today.
Let me begin by Saying although its not as simple as it looks, We should be leaving Afghan lands. BTW, Pakistan, and Yemen too, Congress hasn’t told the People about those smaller wars, but we are there, and not just border zones. People say this war is the “right” war b/c we didn’t have a divided govt. at the time, so effectively it is the GOP’s war.
“Ike”, Our WWII president said we should be wary of the Military Industrial Complex, an Iron Triangle, and we the people and our leaders have been lead down a path following this complex, and its leading no where good.
Afghanistan doesn’t just have opium there, they have vast amounts of elements we are interested in, Russia was there for the same reason that is something we have in common. Can we also just face it, Bin Laden is most probably dead, his kidneys were failing when 9/11 happened, most people don’t last long when they’re kidney’s are failing.
We go into Chaostan all the time, and don’t know how to get out or win(definition of this is vague). Can we learn before leaving on the C-130, Chaostan is SNAFU? The English were there six times in the 20th Century and The Russians couldnt deal with the Afghans, we effectively failed in Somalia too. Stay home, work more on what matters. Work on protecting the U.S., not invading some foreign land, its energy intensive and we don’t know what they know. How do u think we won the Revolutionary and 1812 War(s). Home is safe, and we know best how to defend it, and defending it is much cheaper.
I havae a better idea! Lets pull the troops out of Afghanistan and put them on the border with mexico
I thought this was a good article.
I liked the debate in the comments too.
(except for “curtis” who added nothing to the conversation.)
But! can we leave out the childish diction, like “weenies,” “quitters,” and the “weak of society.”
I feel it discredits you.
I couldn’t agree more, we need to get out of Afghanistan!
We should do it now while everybody’s distracted by domestic issues.
But President Obama has said more than once that this is a war we must win. If we desert the Afgan people now, it will make the world a much more dangerous place. The world is too small to ignore events on the other side of the globe. America can not hide from danger.
Hey Bob: I took an oath to defend this country after 9-11. I joined the United States Army, in 2004 when we already invaded Iraq, as a true believer in the war on terror. The first time I questioned US military policy, was because of what other soldiers told me: at Fort Jackson, South Carolina. You should not speak before you know the facts of my life, sir.
You are in fact the ’sunshine patriot’, the ’summer soldier’; because you can’t bring yourself to question and criticize the government, for the good of the nation. While people like me and Ron Paul are true Patriots; and those in IVAW are the Winter Soldiers.
David: maybe you should run for colonial administrator of Afghanistan, it looks like you are ready for the job. The primitive natives obviously need your help. It’s “our duty” according to you, aka the famous “White Man’s Burden”? Sending Americans to die over colonization of Southeast Asia, for the enrichment of the ruling class of the US is not patriotic. In fact its the furthest thing from it.
EZMan is right: defending our borders with honest police and intelligence work is the best and cheapest way for national security. we need to stop wasting resources on endless war, and for needs unmet at home!
why is it congress can send billions for war after war, no questions asked, but to fund our education, a basic right, we must only worry about increasing administrator’s high bonus salaries, and raise the taxes on the struggling students?
David Bailey: The only way we “desert” the Afghan people, is by continuing our funding of warlords, druglords (like Karzai’s brother), and vicious fundamentalists. It’s their country. Pull out the military funding, direct it to infrastructure, schools, and hospitals, and let them handle their own fate.
hey joseph you should join the french army. You could use some lessons on how to surrender with perfect hair.
Brent and bob you guys need to get your facts straight about afghanistan, stop believing the bull**** you hear from the news. First of all the situation in Afghanistan was better under the taliban, do you know why? Well at least the crime rates were very very low in which afghans did not have for more than 20 years, women were not prone to rape like they do now, life expectancy was higher under the taliban, in July, 2000 the Taliban banned the growing of opium and the production went down by 91%, the ban was so effective that Helmend province recorded no poppy cultivation during the 2001 season, they only executed people who murdered or raped, they were fair, really fair, so if you guys actulley want to know who the real murderers and corrupted officials are then you can find them in the current afghan government, your own government supports these criminals, for an example Hamid Karzai’s brother makes money from the Opium production in southern afghanistan but he still gets paid by the CIA, Taliban stabelised the country, they also knew how to keep the drug problem under control, plus if you ask most afghans in afghanistan today, they would tell you that they prefer the Taliban.
So you people need to get your facts and stop talking about this war like you know whats happening.
Hussan you get your facts straight! I have friends who have relatives in Afganistan and they love U.S. troops. They want us to do more. The low crime rate is so funny. Yes any country would have a low crime rate, if they jailed people without beards, stoned woman who were seen with other man, and killed anyone who said anything bad about the government.
Im sorry but the U.S. and NATO kill innocent Afghans all the time just because they think these innocents are the Taliban, and most of these afghans that die are women and children. So plz tell me, what did the afghan women and children gain since the invasion other than being bombed by the troops and raped by the local warlords who dont get arrested because of their connections with Karzai’s government.
These afghani friends you’re talking about, their relatives either work with the government or work with the foriegn troops or really rich.
Today if you go to Afghanistan and ask any random afghans about who they prefer to have as a government then they would tell you that they prefer the Taliban over the current government.
Im not a supporter of the Taliban but in the last 30 years the Taliban was the best government the Afghans could ever have. I could tell you that they had stupid rules and thats true, but their positive impacts outweighed the current government’s positive impacts and the current government’s negative impacts outweighes the taliban’s negative impacts.
If you think the low crime rate is funny, then before 1996 the afghans never expected to live a life with really low crime rates, they dreamed to have a life like that. Plus a lot of Afghans say during the Taleban days you could walk down at night with a bag full of money and no one would dare to take money from you because criminals knew their limits. Man you gotta give them props for making an impact in a country that faced a lot of wars, killings and rapes.
They didnt kill people who said anything bad about them, maybe they jailed them and that was wrong. But the current government does the same thing to the Afghans, a lot of afghans got arrested by NATO for supporting the Taliban over the current government. Also a lot of them get tortured without any charges.