Question of the Day – Do you think Occupy CSUN was making any progress by being on our campus?

By Kimberly Anderson
December 7th, 2011
Section: Opinions - Question of the Day

CSUN Occupy had been camped out on the Oviatt Lawn for two weeks in order to make a difference on our campus and to get students more aware of the issues that are affecting us.
As groups in other cities continue to occupy and stand tall to make a difference, CSUN Occupy tried uniting students to make a change.

Since tuition has gone up yet again for the spring semester, students in the Occupy CSUN have come together to inspire other students to get involved and have a say in what happens in our school. Is this approach to the issue an effective one?

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  • Jon Soto 952

    Now to address Tuition, What we have at the head of the CSU system is a bunch of unelected Educrats that are never held responsible by the liberal Sacremento politicians. Those Administrators chose to waste our money and financial aid to pay for  perks, pet projects, and pork barrels instead of classes and materials and unless their job is on the line, nothing will change. It should be made easier to fire these administrators for abdicating their office and neglecting our education. What we need is for a change in state law that would make it easier to fire these bad apples. Private sector principles dictate that if you fail at your job, you should be fired on the spot, period. That is what is needed in the CSU system. Again, capitalism could be applied, if the CSU system fails to educate you,  chose a different system. Make the CSUs compete for your education dollar, then you will see change.

    • Vlad

      Yes, let’s apply Capitalism to Higher Education(and K-12) as it now functions as a Crony Socialist system.

      Eliminate all state subsidies. This would put the student directly in charge of the customer/provider arrangement of exchange. Students would shop for the very best product, at the lowest cost. Quality would go up, cost would go down.(see:cars, computers, tvs, etc)

      Apply “free market” lending standards to Student Loans, based on Risk/Reward.
      Each applicants loan should be based on the risk associated with extending the loan. If an Engineering Student wants to borrow $30K, and he/she is strong academically, this loan would be approved at a low rate due to low risk, and high demand for Engineers. If a Chicano/a Studies Student wants to borrow $30k, they should either be denied, pay a higher rate, or only receive part(maybe half) of their requested loan amount, due to less demand.

      Academic Standards. Only 1/2 to 2/3rds of current college kids meet the standards for entrance into Higher Education. Strengthen the admissions policies to allow only qualified students entrance. This would vastly improve the educational experience, for those who worked hard enough to earn the right to attend.

      Yes Jon, Capitalism is the answer to our Educational challenges.

      Vlad

  • Jon Soto 952

    Occupy CSUN was a failure. The only way to change things is to elect people that are  competent in the US constitution. A move to strict constitutionalism is our only hope for change. For more on this position, see  an old PSA called “Make Mine Freedom.” Most college students are quick to forget that Marxism fails. Do not be a Dr. Ism, be an individual. Pay close attenion, no one is going to solve your problems but you. You cannot rely on government to do things for you. Capitalism is not perfect, but everything we rely on now was made by capitalism. Your I-pods/pads, Macs, PC’s, TV’s, cars, etc. came about by captialism. People invested in the products and services they wanted buy. If you do not like your bank, choose another. Votes change more things than “protests.”

  • Ankur Patel

    Occupy is only the English equivalent. Arab Spring, Spanish Indignados, and Occupy are all different manifestations of opposition to the current way of the world. Some people are asking critical questions of our current political, economic, educational, and food systems because of The Movement — and that is a success.

    With Phase I coming to an end, it is important to realize that the removal of a few tents doesn’t signify the end of a movement.  

    Occupy CSUN began encampment on November 14th. Overnight occupation ended on December 4th. 

    Phase I saw us spend too much energy in maintaining a camp instead of developing specific points of action. But it was successful in building a network of interested, like-minded, dedicated individuals. Organizing that energy towards effective ends is always the important task at hand. People are looking for a way to make a difference, it is unsurprising to me that this message board is full of empty criticisms.

    Phase II will differ from one person to the next. We couldn’t identify Phase I until it was over. Phase II might entail better coordination between occupations, better coordination with the local community, occupying more strategic locations [occupy foreclosed homes, elected officials' offices], developing specific targets [Jon Corzine, elected officials, etc.]. 

    We are planning a caravan to other California State University campuses over winter. We have been attending Los Angeles City Council meetings and will continue to do so. We, as a campus, have not done an effective job of coordinating different clubs on campus, but that is a priority for next semester. We have raised the level of consciousness.

    -Ankur 

    • David the small-L libertarian

      Some people are asking critical questions of our current political, economic, educational, and food systems because of The Movement — and that is a success.

      Do you view the Tea Party as a success as well?

      Phase II will differ from one person to the next; we couldn’t identify Phase I until it was over. Phase II might entail better coordination between occupations and the local community, occupying more strategic locations [foreclosed homes, elected officials' offices], developing specific targets [Jon Corzine, elected officials, policy, boycotss, etc.].

      So this is a free-for-all?  Some will think it’s a great idea to piss off as many people as possible by damaging property and disrupting government and business. Others might sit quietly and hope for world peace, equality for all and Utopia while hoping for the demise of those who oppose them.  Some might get with Micheal Moore and see if they can figure out a system to replace capitalism. Sounds like a plan.

      How ’bout taking a lesson from the Tea Party:  Have peaceful, respectful, intelligent rallies, present facts and make your case.  Oh, and try not to get arrested.  Start the Occupy party and run your candidates on the ballot or get the Democratic party to aggressively run your candidates.

      We have raised the level of consciousness.

      And you’ve turned lot of people against you and the Democratic party.

      • Ankur Patel

        The Tea Party was definitely a success, but I doubt it will continue to have major influence on elections.

        You describe the Tea Party with these words: “peaceful, respectful, intelligent rallies, present facts and make your case.” That makes me not want to respond, especially because that is what Occupy has been. 

        A free-for-all? More like free-for-banks, but that is what we are trying to change. 

        Some will think it’s a great idea to waste hours posting messages on internet boards that no one reads. And some will think that is an effective use of their time as well. Others are developing plans.

        Occupy has made it clear from the start that it is not going to be co-opted by political parties. Your narrow focus and rudimentary understanding of the Republican/Democrat binary is telling.

        “Turned a lot of people against you” — you be the judge of that from Vlad’s dark hole. 

        • David the small-L libertarian


          You describe the Tea Party with these words: “peaceful, respectful, intelligent rallies, present facts and make your case.” That makes me not want to respond, especially because that is what Occupy has been.

          Occupy CSUN may have been peaceful but the Occupy movement across the country certainly has not:  Attempting to shut down ports; blocking bridges; causing property damage; battling the police; hundreds of arrests.  The Tea Party?  Not so much.

          The Tea Party has has a major impact on whom the Republican party is running as candidates for 2012 and who won in the 2010 election.

          Your narrow focus and rudimentary understanding of the Republican/Democrat binary is telling.

          I’m actually quite politically astute, but please tell me what I’m missing.

          “Vlad’s dark hole”?  Vlad, is there something you need to tell me? It’s either an anatomical reference or your intellect has just been insulted.

    • Vlad

      Ankur

      You’ve expressed that; “Some people are asking questions about our political, economic, educational, and food systems”

      What are your questions? What answers have you found?

      What is the end game?  If Occupy could wave a magic wand and, within a year have different political, economic, education and food systems what would they look like?

      See, I don’t think the Occupiers have thought through these things at all, and/or if they have, they have not made clear ”their” end-game. Revolution is sexy, and exciting for the young people that you are directing to the streets, but what follows the marches, and the disobedience(not civil at all)? Do you see your movement effecting change through the political process, or are you working to collapse the system, to replace it with your “utopian vision?” Do you think your “organizers” have this same vision? 

      “You say you want a Revolution. Well, we’d all love to see the plan” ~John Lennon 

      What is “your” plan? Is it the same plan as the script writers in South Chicago?

      Vlad

      • Ankur Patel

        My questions all revolve around how to get more people to pay attention to the people that are making decisions that affect our daily lives. 

        People don’t pay attention because they get stuck in ideological battles on message boards and forget that there is actual work that needs to be done. 

        My plan for revolution is in development.

        But in the meantime there is a global movement percolating that I plan to be a part of. If you would rather be a faceless critic on a message board, so be it. 

        • Vlad

          I’ve been to OccupyLA. It was a clustershtupe.

          Work is being done. 9-5 every day. You might want to consider that finishing school and getting a job, might be a valuable endeavor. Or, continue to seek ways that [someone else] can be held to account for your endeavor. Either way.

          When your “masters” have developed the plan for Revolution, I’m sure that it will map very nicely to Obama’s re-election campaign.

          Vlad

  • Vlad

    Unless they can come to terms with WHY tuition costs are going up, then no.

    So far, any and every recommendation that I’ve heard would increase the COST of education, at the same time transferring responsibility for paying the increase, on the backs of the citizens(and businesses) of the state.

    When, and if students decide they’re ready to be accountable for their circumstances and achievements, then they will have made progress.

    “Useful Idiots”

    Vlad 

    • Ankur Patel

      Tuition went up because state funding went down. We know this, but people like yourself propagate misinformation.

      • Vlad

        You’re speaking of “your contribution” to tuition, not tuition.

        State subsidies have created a hyperinflationary rise in the “actual cost” of tuition.

        Progressive Liberal politicans [in the state] have spent more than they receive in revenue(even though, we’re one of the highest taxed states in the country). You will advocate for more state spending. 

        Vlad

  • http://worldwithinsight.com/ Kyle Greggory

    They are probably ineffective. But I think that’s less their fault and more of the CSUN student body’s problem. I hear so many people complain about classes being cut and tuition rising. But then nobody actually does anything about it… they just bend over.

    • Vlad

      And, how is Occupy CSUN addressing these challenges?

      More subsidies. More taxes. More entitlements.

      Spoiled children. Nothing more. Nothing less.

      Vlad

      • KG

        Sorry if I was unclear, Vlad–I’ll reiterate in simple equations:

        People having complaints
        +
        Nobody doing anything
        =
        Problem is not addressed

        vs.

        People having complaints
        +
        Speaking up about them (OCSUN)
        =
        Addressing the problem/bringing light to the issue/getting attention.

        I’d also like to change my previous statement about them being ineffective. We’re talking about them. Thus, they’re effective in some form.

        Now I have to ask, Vlad, what deep dark hole do you live in? Do you go to this school? Do you hear the complaints? Or is everyone spoiled because, back in your day, when university attendance cost $5 per unit, people just sucked it up and dealt with it? Do you realize that, in order to get a job these days, you NEED a degree? Maybe you would be in favor of returning to the America of yore, when manual skills meant something, but nowadays, you need specific knowledge, and you need a degree to back it up. What this means is that most people have to take out student loans, because the cost of tuition is high enough that we cannot afford it, even with our part-time jobs and parental support. Which, in turn, means today’s students are borrowing money from the government. Which, in turn, means the government is accruing more debt. Which means, in turn, means that this the cost of tuition takes a direct toll on our economy.

        This is not brain science. I can literally find proof of this with less effort than it takes to [defecate]. E.g., http://angelicum.net/newsroom/thoughts-on-college-tuition-costs-and-debt/

        Ignorant fools. Nothing more. Nothing less.

        • Vlad

          KG,

          I’ve addressed the Tuition problem in my previous post. Unless and until you want to discuss and address the causation to rising tuition costs, as well as 50% graduation rates, and 30-50% default rates on Students Loans, then you are not wanting to make progress, only want [someone eles] to pay more, so that you can be further subsidized. 

          If the solution to EVERY problem, is TAX THE RICH, you will not find a supporter in me, or, frankly any other taxpayer in the state.

          “In order to get a job today, you need a degree”  This needs to be remedied. read this. http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2008/06/in-the-basement-of-the-ivory-tower/6810/

          I would like to return to the days when manual skills meant somethign. Not every kid is a college student. This is a fallacy created by the colleges. I propose trade tracks for kids not prepared for the rigors of college. Learn a trade. Work with your hands.  Being convinced that you “deserve” to go to college, and then dropping out, wiht $20K in debt is stoopid.

          Government subsidies and loans are creating a hyperinflationary rise in tuition cost, negatively impacting both paid, and entitled students.

          You are a Progressive Liberal, in a Progressive Liberal State, pursuing Progressive Liberal solutions, to problems created by, yep you guessed it, Progressive Liberals.

          Or, have you removed the veil of Progressivism and willing to go on record that what you want is full-blown Marxism.

          Peace, out!

          Vlad

      • Ankur Patel

        The fact that Occupy CSUN has only been discussing solutions, not actively campaigning for anything specific — is indicative of the kind of disinformation that finds itself in your criticisms. 

        • Vlad

          Ankur,

          The “potential solutions” that you’ve discussed have been; TAX THE RICH. Oil Extraction TAX. A 1% Tax, with proceeds Targeting Tuition assistance. FREE EDUCATION. Right?

          Have you discussed;
          Eliminating State subsidies.
          Qualifying Student Loans based on Future Debt/Income ratios, with weighted values associated with Majors (Engineering 90%, Chicano/a Studies 20%) *not intentionally picking on chicano/a studies..
          Admissions limits, based on performance metric, and stricter standards, limiting the amount of students going to college – to find themselves, and to attend keg-parties. How much more effective would the college experience be, if professors were teaching to students who truly wanted to achieve?
          Public/Private Sponsor/Internships, where students would be offered a scholarship towards a field of study, in exchange for Internships, with the possibility for future employment.

          When, and if you’re ready to SOLVE the tuition problem, give me a call.

          BTW, I presented some material to your Occupy group, your advisor collected it, and threw it in the trash.

          Peace, out!

          Vlad

  • Achilles

    The only time I thought of Occupy CSUN was when I had to take a dump.

    • Ankur Patel

      I would request that this sort of comment be removed.

  • Students for Liberty

    Seeing as I had to tell people that there were actual people in the tents and it wasn’t just a display…

  • Old Glory

    No, not really. It’s a joke in my opinion. 37,000 students at CSUN and you have 10 people at the most there.

    • Ankur Patel

      “Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.” — Margaret Mead

      • Vlad

        The Bolsheviks believed that they could change their world, as well.

        Vlad 

  • David the small-L libertarian

    What did they do aside from killing the grass?

    • Ankur Patel

       ”Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.” — Margaret Mead

      • TheAntiV

        You know Ankur quoting an individual isn’t always an effective strategy is trying to make yourself sound knowledgeable. All we care about is evidence. And the evidence shows that the idea that squatting on public property with a clear lack of coherent goals in order to facilitate a change in federal and state policy is incredibly unrealistic and pretentious.